34 replies to this topic

[DrSaphron]

The problem isn't so much the boating of weapons or alpha strikes, the BIGGEST problem is the players and the tiering system! A player that doesn't know how to play the game is going to be terrible, same with players that are just plain terrible and should have uninstalled MWO yesterday. I would much prefer to keep the current GH mechanics and instead change the tiering to a 10 tier system with brand new players starting at tier 7 and if they are truly awful the keep dropping in tier until they are tier 10 and only get to derp with others of their ilk. Meanwhile better players are able to progress to higher tiers and get away from the derps who can't hit the broad side of an Atlas or manage to walk up a ramp to save their own lives.

It is a player problem, not a game mechanics problem!

[Lostdragon]

Ultimax, on 23 August 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

They are weighted in the same boat of damage dealt, because that is the opposite of the current system of Ghost Heat that penalizes specific weapons being boated.

Pick your poison.

If they are weighted less, than laser vomit (the cause of many tears on these forums, and likely one of the main contributors to ED in the first place) gets to continue and people continue to boat them.

If they are weighted equally, then players will boat a smaller number of large weapons to get better range.

Personally I don't feel they should be weighted less. You pay 7 tons for the LPL, you pay 2 tons for the MLAS.

That's the trade off.

Higher damage per ton, shorter range.
Lower damage per ton, longer range.

I'm not saying we need ED, I don't care if the current GH stays and ED never goes live - but the reality is that there isn't much middle ground, either a bunch of light weapons with a few big weapons will be boated or a small number of big weapons will be boated.

If they don't adjust some weighting then they push the meta back to PPFLD. Spread weapons get ED weighting help due to the weakness of spread, I think beam weapons are going to have to get some help too and PPFLD weapons will have to have the highest ED/dmg or there is little point in taking anything besides PPC+GR or ACs.

[Mole]

I had a gut feeling this energy draw system was going to be a spectacular failure as soon as Russ announced his intentions to make one. Too early to tell yet, but I see a lot of signs that it's headed that way.

[Y E O N N E]

Crazy thought:

What if that "energy cap" of 30 was instead applied against the heat generated rather than the damage dealt?

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 August 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Crazy thought:

What if that "energy cap" of 30 was instead applied against the heat generated rather than the damage dealt?

Then Gauss would be dominant? Admittedly, the cooldown nerf plus the loss of the charge is significant, but still.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 August 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Crazy thought:

What if that "energy cap" of 30 was instead applied against the heat generated rather than the damage dealt?

Wouldn't that just make it like my suggestion then, even if mine is a little poorly worded?

Edit: Nevermind, you would still have the energy recovery portion, so not the same.

Deathlike, on 23 August 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

Then Gauss would be dominant? Admittedly, the cooldown nerf plus the loss of the charge is significant, but still.

Gauss just needs heat, it's really that simple.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 August 2016 - 02:27 PM.

[Deathlike]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Gauss just needs heat, it's really that simple.

So... more Ghost Heat than AC40s or less?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Deathlike, on 23 August 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

So... more Ghost Heat than AC40s or less?

No I mean it needs to generate more than 1 heat when you fire any of them

Heatless weapons are fundamentally broken in an environment that isn't supposed to have decent heat neutral builds.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 23 August 2016 - 02:28 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Wouldn't that just make it like my suggestion then?

Where was that suggestion made? I admit I haven't read all of this thread. I read the OP at work, hopped on here and mashed out a reply I was thinking of.

At a glance, though, it just looks like a version of what we have now that isn't quite so biased against lasers. It would still punish smaller lasers proportionally more than larger ones.

[Deathlike]

Maybe I'll do some PTS tonight.

I'm not really itching to do that though.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 August 2016 - 02:33 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 August 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

Where was that suggestion made? I admit I haven't read all of this thread. I read the OP at work, hopped on here and mashed out a reply I was thinking of.

I edited it into me reply, but here it is again.

[Deathlike]

Anyone interested in doing it @ 10PM EDT or so tonight (two hours from this post)?

I know some of you need your Cyclops or see what today's patch did (which for me is next to nothing), but the eternal circle is bothering the heck outta me at the moment.

We can definitely do a lobby if worse comes to worse.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 August 2016 - 04:06 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

I edited it into me reply, but here it is again.

That's way more involved than what I was positing. I agree, heat should take into account range and such. The implication there, though, is that any given amount of heat generated from weapons means whatever just generated that heat has some place on the battlefield where that fire is just as valuable as any other combination in another place. It is on that implication where I suggest keeping the energy draw mechanic and using it to represent heat generated rather than damage dealt is an interesting idea to consider. It doesn't limit alpha size so much as it makes sure that the maximum value of firepower is capped to a certain pre-determined level...with the idea being that Assaults should not be able to burn other Assaults to the ground in one or two shots from 600+ meters away.

So 30 heats worth of small lasers is equal in risk-reward to 30 heats worth of PPCs.

Obviously, other weapon stats apart from heat have to be changed, sincer there is a lower-bound to heat.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 23 August 2016 - 04:36 PM.

[Deathlike]

Well, it's happening now, but noone's here @ Stranamechty.

Just drop by if you're interested (even if it's just a lobby).

[Deathlike]

lol... noone came. Oh well.

Had some internal discussions in the unit, and this is 2 hours of my life that I won't get back.

I have some ideas on how to "work around" this disaster, and even then... it's painful.