68 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

This is a simple question - Are people here looking for a PC-translation of Table Top gaming, or are they looking for a Mech simulator?

Edit: Okay, I guess some clarification is in order, based on responses:


1. The TableTop rules do not allow targeting of specific body parts durng normal combat.

"What About Targeting Computers?"

Targeting Computers are Clan Tech and will not be available to Inner Sphere until until the 3060's, so the targeting of specific body parts in the Inner Sphere would be non-canon in 3049. The Devs would have to break canon and introduce Clan Tech prior to introducing the Clans, themselves. (they'll hit the edge of the Periphery by Game Lanuch in summer, but good luck getting their equipment before they reach the Inner Sphere...)


2. RPGs use "virtual dice" or random-number-generators to determine the effectiveness of combat manuvers; Simulators typically do not. If you want a Sim environment, then a perfectly aimed shot will never miss, if you want an RPG environment, then your shots will have a chance of hitting as long as you're locked onto your target regardless of your actual aiming skill, and your chances of hitting a target will change based on your XPerience and how that XP affects the modifier function that acts upon the value generated by the virtual dice. (by "perfectly aimed" I mean a stationary shooter firing at a stationary target with a target lock well within the weapon's effective range)



Additional Edit: You can't "aim at a body part" without a Targeting Computer accourding to TableTop rules, which the Devs say they will try to follow as closely as possible...

THEREFORE

The Devs have to make a choice:

1.) They can allow targeting of specific body parts without a Targeting Computer, which will break canon, but they are allowed to break canon here-and-there for gameplay purposes.

2.) They will give us all Targeting Computers, which, for 3049, is a violation of canon, but they are allowed to break canon here-and-there for gameplay purposes.

3.) They will not allow us to target specific body parts without a Targeting Computer, but Targeting Computers will be available as an optional equipment/modules... which, for 3049, is a violation of canon, but they are allowed to break canon here-and-there for gameplay purposes.

4.) They will not allow us to target specific bodyparts, meaning no Targeting Computers; your shots will automatically disperse themselves across the target you are currently locked-onto using a random-number-generator to simulate the effects of dice rolls. Firing without a target-lock means your shots will go somewhere randomly in front of you but not exactly where your reticule is pointed because firing accurately at where your reticule is pointing requires a Targeting Computer (which is unavailable).


Options 1 and 2 will support a Simulator-like environment because your direct actions dictate the results. Option 4 supports a RPG-environment where chance and accumulated XPerience overrules your hand-eye-coordination. Option 3 is a mix, obviously.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 22 January 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[Tannhauser Gate]

I think we should be given electronic dice that are wirelessly linked to PGI's servers. sweet

Edited by LakeDaemon, 21 January 2012 - 09:35 AM.

[Razor Kotovsky]

Tabletop without beers is pointless.

[Mchawkeye]

All about the Sim baby.

I want to play percentage I'll play on the table top...

[Felicitatem Parco]

Razor Kotovsky, on 21 January 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

Tabletop without beers is pointless.

So... tabletop = fishing?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 21 January 2012 - 09:41 AM.

[Zervziel]

The RPG option should also caused the person who clicked it to either explode into a shower of fuzzy dice or become a pony so noone would ever take them seriously again.

I would not play a MechWarrior game that wasn't the traditional sim. It's one of the main things that has defined the series.

[Razor Kotovsky]

Prosperity Park, on 21 January 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

So... tabletop = fishing?

= heterosexual fun times with other men irl, yes.

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 21 January 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[Undead]

I'm shocked that this question even needs to be asked. Mechwarrior always has been and always will be (I friggin hope) a sim. If I wanna roll dice I can play CBT.

[Ghost]

I have my eye on this thread. It barely toes the line between legitimate discussion and becoming another battleground for "tabletop vs. Mechwarrior" -- if it crosses it, I'm closing it.

[Tannhauser Gate]

It's a troll thread or soon will be

[Omigir]

I like beer. n__n That is the only appeling thing so far about this thred. it mentioned beer.

[KJ Crow]

I would like to see a mixture of both - The Sim factor of piloting the mech, combat and environment, but with the tactical mechanics of the table top game. (such as random internal components blowing out on crits, a percentage chance of shut down or damage if you let you heat get too high...that kind of thing)

As for calling it an RPG... you are piloting a 3 storey tall, walking, machine of mass destruction, invading other peoples territory and are considered amongst the elite specimens of humankind.... Not even our military players can say they fulfil that job description ever!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Ghost, on 21 January 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

I have my eye on this thread. It barely toes the line between legitimate discussion and becoming another battleground for "tabletop vs. Mechwarrior" -- if it crosses it, I'm closing it.

I'm asking this question in reference to myriad other forum threads discussing Weapons Convergence, Legging, Medium Lasers vs AC's, Alpha Strikes, Mechs Falling Down, and other factors that basically define the difference between TT and Sim.

From the results of this particular poll, it looks like the majority of people would rather prefer to have a Simulator where your shots hit where you aim them, as opposed to a TT-environment where you can't Alpha someone in the leg. I'm curious if there are those who voted for the Sim option, yet also oppose Legging, convergent aiming, and Mechs that fall down then they lose a leg.


I don't think this boils down to TT vs MW because TableTop BattleTech is not a PC-driven virtual BattleMech vehicle-driving game, it's a boardgame with land, air, sea, and space units. Mechwarrior, on the other hand, is a vehicle-simulator that gets its backstory from the fictional universe created for the Table Top game. Arguing about whether TT or MW is better is just like arguing about which is better: Cameras or Adobe Photoshop.

The whole purpose of this question is to see ***HOW CLOSELY*** the gaming community would like to see MWO follow TT rules. If you want it to follow the rules by-the-book, then you'll want one kind of damage-application scheme, but if you want it to be looser, then you'd want something more simulatory. That's why I made the poll.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 21 January 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[Maximilian Thorn]

The game is a Sim with all its advantages and disadvanatges therein.

The real issue is not all of us agree as to what should be considered an advantage and what should be considered a disadvantage.

[Alaskan Viking]

There are hundreds of RPG's out there, and a lot of them are F2P, but no mech simulators...the answer is obvious, as the poll results show.

[Adridos]

Simulator, there is no doubt. Luck is too bad mechanic in the only place in the world where you should fiht on equal terms.

[DEVASTATOR]

I think the way you described RPG (Role Playing Game) could be revised. I don't see a PnP/TT conversion to PC as RPG in any way or that something other than that would be a mech sim. There's been plenty of arguments about this already.

I think if you described it as a choice between a mech sim like all the previous games and a real RPG with all the BT universe (not the BT PnP/T game) stuff in it like managing units, houses, inventories, resources, blah, blah, blah - that'd perhaps be a better description. No?

Past multiplayer has really been somewhat FPS oriented UNLESS you joined a league that had a rule set that allowed you to manage some of these things. They were essenetially out of the game itself though and run by a league's website. We've never had a multiplayer RPG that had you primarily driving a mech but included typical RPD or MMO related things. Things like playing for a purpose (like taking a planet), playing in a persistent universe, leveling up skills or experience, acquiring new weapons, etc. That sounds more like an RPG in my books.

If so then I'm all for an RPG provided we can decide what elevel of involvement w want in it. There will be a LOT of people who just want to drive a mech and shoot things. Others will want the full monty - the dungeons and dragons syndrome. I'm somewhere in the middle...I think.

Edited by DEVASTATOR, 21 January 2012 - 04:07 PM.

[Morashtak]

Sim.

I plan to play honorably but not stupidly. If it's possible for the other teams field commander to surrender the field and withdraw his remaining 'Mechs then it's a win for my team and no sense in hunting down the remaining opposition just for kill numbers. If that's a bit of RP then so be it. But the game will need to make allowances for it. If it doesn't and one side has to completely destroy the other then... eh, sorry about blowing your 'Mech out from underneath you.

[trycksh0t]

Why must it be one or the other, can't we get the best of both? Actually getting to tromp around in 50-tons of death machine with enough firepower to level a reasonablly sized city fulfills my wants for a sim, end of story. Where the MechWarrior 'Sims' have failed me in the past has been discussed to no end (Pinpoint weapons, heat is a joke, etc...) Better heat mechanics are almost a deal breaker for me, if heat is as much of a joke as it has been in the past. Pin-point weapons fire IS a deal breaker, there is NO cannon evidence, anywhere, ever, that remotely supports a 'Mech being able to alpha it's entire weapons compliment with nano-meter precision accuracy, at any range. That is not sim, that is arcade, and arcade is bad (In this case). From what PGI and the boys have been saying, I have great confidence that they are gonig to give us the best of both worlds. And if not, there's always lynch mobs.

[Blackfire1]

And why can't it be both?