79 replies to this topic

[Orzorn]

Spooky, on 03 March 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

But the big questions is, how will the player be able to effectively control these things? In most MechWarrior games, you control the torso twist and pitch with your mouse and the feet direction and speed with WASD for instance (or on a Joystick, you may control Torso twist with the rudder and feet direction and torso pitch with the joystick, or however you configure it). But how will you be able to control your head ('the arms') and your torso at the same time, with just Mouse and Keyboard for example, both with precision no less? If you are only able to control your torso with they keyboard for instance (may be with Q and E being the actual torso twist, and WASD still the feet direction and speed control, you'll not be able to aim with the torso weapons with the same precision as the arm weapons, or is that simply the idea behind it? Furthermore, it will take some getting used to, not being able to control your Mech with the mouse, just your head instead.

The way Assault Tech 1: Battletech achieves it is to have your normal cursor control the arms. If you press and hold a shift button (that is, a button that changes modes of something. Not necessarily the shift key on your keyboard) then the mouse now controls your torso twist and pitch. It works very well and is pretty intuitive. It would also work just fine for joysticks, because you would only need a single button to change what the stick is controlling.

[Spooky]

Orzorn, on 03 March 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

The way Assault Tech 1: Battletech achieves it is to have your normal cursor control the arms. If you press and hold a shift button (that is, a button that changes modes of something. Not necessarily the shift key on your keyboard) then the mouse now controls your torso twist and pitch. It works very well and is pretty intuitive. It would also work just fine for joysticks, because you would only need a single button to change what the stick is controlling.

I see, hmm. Well it still sounds clumsy, but I am looking forward to see how it works out in MWO . Btw. what happens to your Arm Reticule when you press Shift (or whatever button)? Does it snap back to the center or something?

[Insidious Johnson]

Why aren't there 3? Torso, and well, two arms? Independant articulation of both arms means you could cover an exit at a corner (torso) and still cover two other sides of a building. (left arm/right arm). It is absolutely imperative that I be able to pull off fancy shooting moves like Costner did in 'Silverado', this is after all fantasy. Great idea and troll fodder!

[Orzorn]

Spooky, on 03 March 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

I see, hmm. Well it still sounds clumsy, but I am looking forward to see how it works out in MWO . Btw. what happens to your Arm Reticule when you press Shift (or whatever button)? Does it snap back to the center or something?

I think it stays on its relative position on the screen. So if its on the right side of the screen and your torso twist, it'll still be at the same place on the screen.

Assault Tech 1: Battletech is free, and you can try it out if you want to see how it all works.

[Bryan Ekman]

Spooky, on 03 March 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

But the big questions is, how will the player be able to effectively control these things? In most MechWarrior games, you control the torso twist and pitch with your mouse and the feet direction and speed with WASD for instance (or on a Joystick, you may control Torso twist with the rudder and feet direction and torso pitch with the joystick, or however you configure it). But how will you be able to control your head ('the arms') and your torso at the same time, with just Mouse and Keyboard for example, both with precision no less? If you are only able to control your torso with they keyboard for instance (may be with Q and E being the actual torso twist, and WASD still the feet direction and speed control, you'll not be able to aim with the torso weapons with the same precision as the arm weapons, or is that simply the idea behind it? Furthermore, it will take some getting used to, not being able to control your Mech with the mouse, just your head instead.

Head (free look) is toggled, when you release the toggle, you snap back to the torso heading. Your mouse moves the torso (yaw/pitch).

I feels pretty much like every other MechWarrior game, except for the minor lead time we've added. For an example on how this looks an feels think Metroid Prime for Wii.

GDC will answer much.

Insidious Johnson, on 03 March 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Why aren't there 3? Torso, and well, two arms? Independant articulation of both arms means you could cover an exit at a corner (torso) and still cover two other sides of a building. (left arm/right arm). It is absolutely imperative that I be able to pull off fancy shooting moves like Costner did in 'Silverado', this is after all fantasy. Great idea and troll fodder!

Since the mouse moves the arms... you'd need to some how have a right/left arm lock to switch controls between them. It's a bit TOO granular of a control scheme IMHO.

[Spooky]

Bryan Ekman, on 03 March 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Head (free look) is toggled, when you release the toggle, you snap back to the torso heading. Your mouse moves the torso (yaw/pitch).

I feels pretty much like every other MechWarrior game, except for the minor lead time we've added. For an example on how this looks an feels think Metroid Prime for Wii.

GDC will answer much.

I see. Another thing I am wondering: say you released the toggle and your head snaps back to the torso heading. Will the torso reticule still differ from the arms reticule? e.g., when you are moving your Mech bobs up/down/left/right, meaning the torso weapons would also bob around. The Arm weapons on the other hand could keep themselves steady at whatever you are aiming currently.

Or will the "torso-bob" no affect the weapons direction in the first place? (As it does in MWLL for instance.)

But yes, I guess we should just wait for GDC .

Edited by Spooky, 03 March 2012 - 05:02 PM.

[Helmer]

Orzorn, on 03 March 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

We are truly spoiled by you.

No, seriously, we are. No other developer would put this much work and love into the Mechwarrior franchise. This is the kind of effort that will bring Mechwarrior to the foray, and tell all the Call of Duty and Halo folks who the real boss is.

Seriously. The amount of info they casually drop in the forums and on Twitter is awesome.

You can tell they love their game and cannot wait to get people playing.

[Orzorn]

Helmer, on 03 March 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Seriously. The amount of info they casually drop in the forums and on Twitter is awesome.

You can tell they love their game and cannot wait to get people playing.

I imagine the anticipation is killing them just as much as it is us. We love the game, they love the game, and I think, in the end, we're all excited for the game.

[Atlai]

sounds challengeing but really cool at the same time

[Lance2500]

This will be interesting is all I can say.

[TimberJon]

Finally some challenge. Man they sure doing a great job of applying reality to this game. They are paying attention to even how the Mech is manufactured and torso weapons are almost a small detail that has always been overlooked. As they said, they are fixing issues with the previous games. Well effin done. Glad someone else cares about making the little details realistic, make sense and be purposeful.

[Garth Erlam]

It's pretty tough, but I did manage to have my arm-mounted weapons destroy one arm while my torso weapons destroyed another. It's really difficult to learn but it's very... deep I guess I'd call it.

[Helmer]

Garth Erlam, on 04 March 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

It's pretty tough, but I did manage to have my arm-mounted weapons destroy one arm while my torso weapons destroyed another. It's really difficult to learn but it's very... deep I guess I'd call it.

That's what I like to hear . Depth.

Thanks Garth.

[Reinhardt Drescher]

I wonder how they're going to work that for the people who don't use joysticks? Maybe both reticles overlap, then you hold down a button and retarget the arms' reticle, then release the button and the second reticle snaps back? Interested to find out . . .

Edited by Reinhardt Drescher, 04 March 2012 - 01:43 AM.

[Siilk]

Reinhardt Drescher, on 04 March 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

I wonder how they're going to work that for the people who don't use joysticks? Maybe both reticles overlap, then you hold down a button and retarget the arms' reticle, then release the button and the second reticle snaps back? Interested to find out . . .

I can think of the following possibilities:

* torso reticle would be fixed in the centre of the screen while arm reticule would move freely around the screen with a mouse/PoV joystick hat to reflect free arm movement. In this case, torso weapons targeting would be done only by torso twist/pitch, for which MW3-style "torso look switch" would be a best choice. I, personally, think this would be the best option, as it would provide great amount of flexibility, effectively allowing player to target two things at once.

* torso pitch/twist would always follow arm reticle, but at slower rate, so if, for example, player would move arm reticle to the top right of the screen, torso would initiate a turn and pitch change, moving torso weapons into that position. Arm-mounted weapons would be able to shoot in desired direction instantly, while torso-mounted weapons would require some time to line-up.

* torso pitch/twist would be controlled by a separate set of keys, like in MW2. Fine targeting would be done by arm-mounted weapons only, while torso would only be capable of crude position adjustments.

[Scar]

Bryan Ekman, on 03 March 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Head (free look) is toggled, when you release the toggle, you snap back to the torso heading. Your mouse moves the torso (yaw/pitch).

Excuse me, Bryan - but i didn't get it clear. Does the free look move only the pilot's head, or arms / arms reticle are moving too?

[Caballo]

Damn. If that means we'll be able to use the throttle nub to aim arms and the main joy to aim the rest, that's gonna be what i call INMERSION. You gotta be concentrated to handle that. Plus, it really expands the arch, so it gives a new sense to a multi monitor setup!

EDIT: ...makes me think the phrase "I'm still getting the hang of it" is going to be a common one in my room for a while

Edited by Caballo, 04 March 2012 - 05:16 AM.

[Arnold Carns]

Bryan Ekman, on 03 March 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Since the mouse moves the arms... you'd need to some how have a right/left arm lock to switch controls between them. It's a bit TOO granular of a control scheme IMHO.

I heard somewhere, that some in some japanese games you're given the opportunity to use 2 Mouses for input. I had yet not seen such a game. And I see some complications using a 2 Mouse/Keyboard Setup. You lack one hand for this one IMHO.
An age ago some friends of mine and me tried to make our own (sorrily vapored) MechWarrior game on the "Blitz3D" Engine from blitzbasic. The Joystick Plugin supported more than a single joystick and we tried a control setup with 2 Joysticks (one for each arm) 1 Throttle and Pedals. It had been very satisfying, although it needed some practice to get used to.

But I guess that MWO is (and should be) pointed more on the casual gamer than at some MechWarrior-Addicted nerds who tried to follow the descriptions written in the novels by creating a complex contol set some would disagree because they don't own jostick-throttle-pedal devices.
Even if it's possible and much fun once you'd get used to. I had a hard time because I didn't owned pedals and had to map torso twist to buttons on the throttle and twisted during heated test battles the wrong direction.

[LackofCertainty]

Scar, on 04 March 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

Excuse me, Bryan - but i didn't get it clear. Does the free look move only the pilot's head, or arms / arms reticle are moving too?

Here's how I understand it.

Your mouse controls your torso defaultly. Your torso and arm reticules are locked together for ease of aiming.

If you hit the toggle, your torso stays locked, and switch over to looking around with your head. Wherever you look your arm reticles follow on their own. (with a little lag time to represent the arms catching up to your head movment) If you hit the toggle a 2nd time, your view snaps back to where you left the torso aiming, and you're back to moving the torso around with the mouse.

So most of the time you'll be using the default controls, but if you're running away you could hit the toggle so you can look back over your shoulder and take pot shots with your arm-mounted stuff. Also, you could use it to cover two different corners in an urban setting, If you aimed your torso at one corner, then toggled and aimed your arms at another corner.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 04 March 2012 - 06:10 AM.

[Siilk]

LackofCertainty, on 04 March 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

Here's how I understand it.

Your mouse controls your torso defaultly. Your torso and arm reticules are locked together for ease of aiming.

If you hit the toggle, your torso stays locked, and switch over to looking around with your head. Wherever you look your arm reticles follow on their own. (with a little lag time to represent the arms catching up to your head movment) If you hit the toggle a 2nd time, your view snaps back to where you left the torso aiming, and you're back to moving the torso around with the mouse.

My thoughts exactly. Sounds a lot like MW3 control mechanics, which I dearly love. It's really great to know lead dev of MWO shares my views on how mech weapons should be controlled. Bryan, you're the best!