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MWO will not include VOIP: A Mistake?


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#1 Mr Smiles

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:12 AM

EDIT: UPDATED WITH DEV RESPONSES

From http://www.zam.com/s...tml?story=29458

Quote

Paul: This was a discussion we had early on in the design and engineering phase of MWO. We had thought it would be cool to have VOIP interrupted by scrambling signals or have a snooping device that would let you listen to the other team's VOIP channel. But immediately, those of us who play competitive multi-player brought up the 3rd party solutions like TeamSpeak and Ventrilo as a means to bypass these distortion and snooping mechanics. It was decided that we would not include VOIP with MWO as most players would have their own TeamSpeak/Ventrilo running anyhow.


I have a fairly major problem with this statement. It implies that EVERYONE playing the game is going to have a third-party VOIP channel, and they're all going to know each other before the match.

But let's face it: there are some people out there who, outside of specific games (and MWO might be one) don't use VOIP, so they don't have it installed. This excludes people who don't want to set up that third-party software, and don't want to have to pay for a voice server. Or, what if I know people who play MWO, like my brother in Kentucky, but aren't part of my 'inner circle' of Mumble-friends? I'll have to stick to text with them.

The second problem is that not everyone in a match knows each other. I have 2, maybe 3 friends who will be playing MWO. It'll likely be the case that our Lance will have to be filled by a random pub mercenary. We're fine with this. What we're not fine with is being totally unable to communicate with that pubbie except through text.

If MWO included a built-in VOIP, I'd be able to hit the button and EVERYONE on my team--the pubbie included--would be able to hear my commands. But no. Since MWO won't include VOIP, I'll have to use voice for two of my lancemates, and text for the third. Extremely inconvenient.

I really think that second issue is a much bigger thing than the first... how often do I wish LoL included VOIP so our group could talk to the pubbie... and now, MWO is mimicing that bad design decision, preventing us from forming a tight team even with random pubbies.

It'd be even WORSE if I didn't have ANY friends playing MWO, which is also possible. I know I'm going to want to play this for years. But what if _I_ am the random pubbie? I'll have to use only text, even though I have a microphone wired to my face 100% of the time I'm playing a videogame. That's just, STUPID. Not including VOIP means when I have to play the game on my own, I won't be able to communicate with teammates except through text--which is clumsy, at BEST.

What do other people think? I don't know about you guys, but I don't have 12 people on my friends list who want to play MWO for company-sized matches--I think we NEED built-in VOIP to manage that many people on a map at once. Text won't do.

EDIT: Here are Bryan's responses in the thread:



View PostBryan Ekman, on 05 April 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

We always weigh what is of the most value to the consumer. While VOIP is a reasonable value, a high quality MWO VOIP solution was not feasible for launch. We have a backlog of features, VOIP being one of them. Post launch, we plan to revisit VOIP and see what we can come up with.


View PostBryan Ekman, on 05 April 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

We have contextual command/order menus that all players can use. So that should go a long way to solving the OPs needs (I hope).



View PostBryan Ekman, on 05 April 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

That aside, your OP is definitely valid and falls into a grey zone. The core users will most likely use their own solution, the casual users will most likely use none. However a tight knit small group as you have mentioned, is left out in the cold. I wish I had a solution in place that filled this middle ground. Know that it is on our radar.

Edited by Mr. Smiles, 06 April 2012 - 09:33 AM.


#2 Kudzu

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:18 AM

View PostMr. Smiles, on 05 April 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

would be able to hear my commands.

This is the exact reason that even if they had it I (and many others) would just turn it off.

#3 Paul Inouye

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:21 AM

FIIIINNNNEEEEE!!!

Light the torches... grab the pitchforks!

Edited by Paul Inouye, 05 April 2012 - 09:24 AM.


#4 Zerik

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:23 AM

"...This includes the fact that players will not be able to share currency with each other, so being paid off isn't going to happen."
Personally I find this portion of the interview more disheartening. Oftentimes in WoT atleast I find I'm alot more efficient at raking in the virtual cash than my friends, and some of them hold me back from higher tier matches not because they don't have the experience, but they simply cannot afford equivalent rides while I could easily give them the cash for it, if there was an ability to transfer said cash.
Now, I know MWO won't be having the same tier-battle issues, but still it would be nice if I could help out my buddy to get the last few C-Bills needed to get the shiny new 'Mech he wants, or help pay for repairs after I 'accidently' blow off his missle rack or some such thing.

#5 Mr Smiles

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

View PostKudzu, on 05 April 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

This is the exact reason that even if they had it I (and many others) would just turn it off.


Well, if it's a three-man of my friends and I, and one random pubbie, and our team NEEDS a commander, either I or one of my other friends IS going to be issuing commands or relaying information.

I find your argument confusing, because this game is designed around someone taking a leadership role, paying attention to the map and relaying information to his teammates.

View PostPaul Inouye, on 05 April 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

FIIIINNNNEEEEE!!!

Light the torches... grab the pitchforks!

I'll confer with Bryan and we will address this. There is a reason behind it but you'll have to wait for my excuse. :mellow:


I hope you confer and decide VOIP is warranted, but, at least you're conferring <_<

View PostZerik, on 05 April 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

"...This includes the fact that players will not be able to share currency with each other, so being paid off isn't going to happen."
Personally I find this portion of the interview more disheartening. Oftentimes in WoT atleast I find I'm alot more efficient at raking in the virtual cash than my friends, and some of them hold me back from higher tier matches not because they don't have the experience, but they simply cannot afford equivalent rides while I could easily give them the cash for it, if there was an ability to transfer said cash.
Now, I know MWO won't be having the same tier-battle issues, but still it would be nice if I could help out my buddy to get the last few C-Bills needed to get the shiny new 'Mech he wants, or help pay for repairs after I 'accidently' blow off his missle rack or some such thing.


Guild banks anyone?

#6 DarkTreader

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

Eh, I think they are looking at it from a logical point of view - why waste time developing something internally that is being done more efficiently by a third-party group? Now, something like a TS overlay might work well, or similar to how the NGNG website has... but the case still remains: if they were able to do something as cool as frag your comms due to damage or interference, no one would use them because they'd have an external TS/Vent/Mumble client running.

I say good design call.

As far as lone wolf/pubbies/etc... go, you pull them into your TS channel, or have a public one set up to use. If they don't have it, their loss. I can think of plenty of games where, if you're not on voice, you don't play with that group - if it's on and they can hear, but can't respond for one reason or another, that's fine.

I just think that it'd be a waste of PGI's time to try and shoehorn this in at this point in the design process. Feature creep is a PITA, and keeping that down as much as possible is a GOOD THING™

#7 Mr Smiles

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 05 April 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

FIIIINNNNEEEEE!!!

Light the torches... grab the pitchforks!


MWAHAHHAHAA I already captured your pre-edit statement in my quote! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR!

#8 Lyon

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

Sorta speaking for the already-organized crowd (House Steiner has its own TS3 server ), I do not care if MWO has VOIP. My own personal opinion is simple: the more code that Piranha has to shoehorn into this game, the longer it will take to release the game. I love the K.I.S.S. rule, because it applies everywhere, but especially here.

Make a good game. Make it with as little kludge-code as possible. We'll figure out the rest, and once it's released and obviously works well, THEN consider putting VOIP in.

/2 cents

#9 Nexus Trimean

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:29 AM

Not having VOIP is fine, A lot of players will disable the in game chat if they have there own vent/mumble/teamspeak/skype server. It does discourage Team play on a Match basis, But it encourages you to run with a known Group more consistently. Most of the time The in game voice is not up to the quality of a third party solution that people are already used to.

Edited by Nexus Trimean, 05 April 2012 - 09:32 AM.


#10 Zerik

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:29 AM

View PostMr. Smiles, on 05 April 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Guild banks anyone?


Not being able to share currency with other players generally means there will be no means to transfer X amount of your C-Bills to any place where any other player will be able to access it :mellow: but, we'll see.

#11 MaddMaxx

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

So IF they had included VOIP, but you can't use it for Scrambling or eaves dropping, but now you can hear ALL the Pubbies. What is the first thing you would ask for next?

"How do I set up "Channels" just for me and my Buds...?"

or

"How do I MUTE those crazy ****** that just will not shut up....!"

The third Party Apps are "Free" so if anyone is serious about playing MWO they should install one. I believe NGNG has a Server set up that allows Teams to request a Channel for in game use. Perhaps some investigation into these kind of things would allow you to have your Cake and eat it too.

Oh and btw, If you have to ask what NGNG is, then you have not done the proper investigation as required. :mellow:

Edited by MaddMaxx, 05 April 2012 - 09:36 AM.


#12 Lusankya

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

I really can go either way on this subject. I play WoT and if I'm platooning with Clanmates then I'm using our TS3 server but if I'm just fooling around and playing with other friends then I use the ingame voice option. I hope they include an ingame voice option but if they don't then that is fine too.

#13 Aegis Kleais

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:32 AM

Well, it just means there's going to be significantly less coordination in pubs.

Another good reason to look into allowing players to "rent" game servers, since you might be able to cut deals for not only game servers but TS/Vent servers as well.

#14 pursang

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:32 AM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 05 April 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

FIIIINNNNEEEEE!!!

Light the torches... grab the pitchforks!


Well, if you insist...

Posted Image

#15 Garth Erlam

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:33 AM

Keep in mind there's also text chat - which honestly I use about as much as verbal.

#16 swamp hag

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

I am glad there will be no VOIP - it will discourage the development of the deplorable troll/harasser community enjoyed by Call of Duty and other games with built-in VOIP. Really, who doesn't mute almost everybody right away?

Edited by Glory, 05 April 2012 - 09:37 AM.


#17 StompyMcGee

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:37 AM

An integrated VoIP would seem to make a lot of sense. If a lot of the matches will be PUGs, then organising voice comms through 3rd party systems will just be awkward.
While I agree it wouldn't really be practical to add a sort of EW component to the voice comms, I can't agree that this is a reason not to include VoIP. It's just too central to team gaming, and to me it makes sxense to make all aspects of team gaming easier - and having voice comms that just work, especially for PUGs would be a step in that direction.

#18 pursang

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:37 AM

View PostGlory, on 05 April 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

I am glad there will be no VOIP - it will discourage the development of the deplorable troll/harasser community enjoyed by Call of Duty and other games with built-in VOIP. Really, who doesn't mute almost everybody right away?


< ---- Guilty!

#19 CeeKay Boques

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:38 AM

World of Warcraft, a giant of a game had VOIP, they developed it, polished it and submitted it.

Nobody used it.

Gaming guilds USUALLY do more than just play one game, or they have "Pregame" meetings, Post game meetings... Private meetings...

All of these things usually point to a 3rd Party vendor for Comms.


The only people who would use VOIP are the unaffiliated new people, who would either be:

A. Too Casual to use
B. Too Shy to use
C. Not shy at all and talkative and annoying and make funny sounds or yell or *Click*

Waste of resources.

#20 pursang

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:39 AM

View PostTechnoviking, on 05 April 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

World of Warcraft, a giant of a game had VOIP, they developed it, polished it and submitted it.

Nobody used it.

Gaming guilds USUALLY do more than just play one game, or they have "Pregame" meetings, Post game meetings... Private meetings...

All of these things usually point to a 3rd Party vendor for Comms.


The only people who would use VOIP are the unaffiliated new people, who would either be:

A. Too Casual to use
B. Too Shy to use
C. Not shy at all and talkative and annoying and make funny sounds or yell or *Click*

Waste of resources.


And besides that, dedicated VOIP programs like Ventrillo or TeamSpeak almost always perform better then anything a developer can put in thier game.





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