336 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

id wager to say that streak boats are the problem, just like the gausspult remains a problem.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Yes, the problem is that people will always find a weapon that has some slight advantage, then load up on it to maximize that advantage.

Min/Max'ers destroy game balance.

[Keless]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 20 November 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

id wager to say that streak boats are the problem, just like the gausspult remains a problem.

"Gausspult remains a problem." -- I'm not sure the devs agree with that when they introduced the Cataphract with 4 ballistic hardpoints.

I also dont agree with it-- dont stand still and a gausspult requires skill to hit you with; stand still and get punished. Meanwhile they sacrifice a lot of speed and firepower to hold those suckers. They can melt an atlas in time, but only if they arent targeted as the serious threat that they are.

Strategy inducing builds are strategy inducing.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Keless, on 20 November 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

"Gausspult remains a problem." -- I'm not sure the devs agree with that when they introduced the Cataphract with 4 ballistic hardpoints.

I also dont agree with it-- dont stand still and a gausspult requires skill to hit you with; stand still and get punished. Meanwhile they sacrifice a lot of speed and firepower to hold those suckers. They can melt an atlas in time, but only if they arent targeted as the serious threat that they are.

Strategy inducing builds are strategy inducing.

The only problem with the Gausspult is that it's hardpoints are put so close together, you are practically guaranteed a dual hit every time. Trust me, as I ran at a full 60+ kph perpendicular to a Cat at over 500 meters, the headshot it easily placed on my cockpit that instantly killed me says there needs to be a little bit of a tweak.

[Angel Dust]

Well, first this: pre-patch i walked my Atlas out, soaked alot off damage and dished out alot. After patch: i get destroyed in twenty seconds. Mostly by streak boats and UAC-5 platforms.

First off: let's look at the ssrm.
Weight: 1.5 (next to nothing)
Ammo: alot per ton
Heat: only enough to dry my socks
Damage: 5 per shot.
Hit ratio: 100%
Hit location: torso
Lock speed: with the new modules pretty short
Lock retention: with the new modules indefinably.

If that is not OP, what is?
Streak cat delivers 30damage to a torso no matter what you do. An atlas will fall in no time to that. Remember: it's 3ppc's with no miss chance and right in the torso. Lesser armed mechs fall even faster. Sure you can try to run away but how do you do that when cat's run 80+? Ssrm should not hit 100% of the time. They should lock and only track to the mech if you keep the recticle on the mech. Like a guide-by-wire system. And if you fire when not on target, they should refuse to fire.

Second: UAC-5.
Great but need alot longer to unjam imo. Hardly noticed them jamming before they unjammed. 15sec would be fine i Guess.

[Keless]

Franklen Avignon, on 20 November 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

The only problem with the Gausspult is that it's hardpoints are put so close together, you are practically guaranteed a dual hit every time. Trust me, as I ran at a full 60+ kph perpendicular to a Cat at over 500 meters, the headshot it easily placed on my cockpit that instantly killed me says there needs to be a little bit of a tweak.

Like I said-- if you move, the gausspult needs to have skill. But if you're moving at a constant velocity (no matter how fast) the required skill is not high. "Serpentine Shelly. Serpentine!"

Edited by Keless, 20 November 2012 - 04:52 PM.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Keless, on 20 November 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Like I said-- if you move, the gausspult needs to have skill. But if you're moving at a constant velocity (no matter how fast) the required skill is not high. "Serpentine Shelly. Serpentine!"

And like I said, the problem isn't that they can hit me, the problem is that they are guaranteed to hit me twice.

[Keless]

Angel Dust, on 20 November 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

Well, first this: pre-patch i walked my Atlas out, soaked alot off damage and dished out alot. After patch: i get destroyed in twenty seconds. Mostly by streak boats and UAC-5 platforms.

First off: let's look at the ssrm.
Weight: 1.5 (next to nothing)
Ammo: alot per ton
Heat: only enough to dry my socks
Damage: 5 per shot.
Hit ratio: 100%
Hit location: torso
Lock speed: with the new modules pretty short
Lock retention: with the new modules indefinably.

If that is not OP, what is?
Streak cat delivers 30damage to a torso no matter what you do. An atlas will fall in no time to that. Remember: it's 3ppc's with no miss chance and right in the torso. Lesser armed mechs fall even faster. Sure you can try to run away but how do you do that when cat's run 80+? Ssrm should not hit 100% of the time. They should lock and only track to the mech if you keep the recticle on the mech. Like a guide-by-wire system. And if you fire when not on target, they should refuse to fire..

Your math might be wrong-- Cat A1 has 6 missile points, meaning 6SSRM = 12 missiles X 2damage/missile = 24 damage (not 30) by my count. And that is every 3.5 seconds.

I guarantee your Atlas can do more than 10 dps. If an SSRM cat is taking you out 1:1, you're doing it wrong. If you're not being taken out 1:1, then your example is wrong.

Meanwhile, it's got to wait for target lock before even the first shot, and it DOES have to keep you in reticle for it to MAINTAIN that target lock.

Furthermore, torso hit is not guaranteed, as it will aim to the core but if your arm is in the way it doesn't magically go through.

[Dimento Graven]

FYI: Streaks will still miss. Look at this snippet of me firing streaks, and you'll clearly see 'em miss.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 20 November 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Scarlett Avignon]

Dimento Graven, on 20 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

FYI: Streaks will still miss. Look at this snippet of me firing streaks, and you'll clearly see 'em miss.

I saw hits every time you had a lock.

[Asatruer]

MustrumRidcully, on 20 November 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Of course, in the TT game - Streaks always hit. WHen they fired at all. Any miss result basically meant that you wouldn't expend that rocket.

In MW:O, they tried to replicate that effect by the Streaks being homing weapons. But maybe they should have considered what kind of advantage homing really is and lowered the rate of fire on Streaks?

Technically speaking, SRMs in TT were not unguided. They did have less sophisticated guidance than LRMs, but they were not dumb/dead fire missiles like they are represented here. In TT, actual dead-fire SRMs (and LRMS) were added as a variant warhead type, with the fluff saying that they were invented by Kurita by stripping the guidance systems in place of a bigger explosive, with the rules of using the two worst of 3d6 on the missile hit table, but doing an additional point of damage per missile. If the default SRMs had no guidance systems, then they could not take advantage of NARC without an upgrade to the missiles, which they do not. Only TAG and Artemis FCS needed an upgrade in the missiles to use those targeting systems, and the upgraded missiles (only for LRMs, not SRMs) for TAG were not available to the IS until 3057.

Keless, on 20 November 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

Your math might be wrong-- Cat A1 has 6 missile points, meaning 6SSRM = 12 missiles X 2damage/missile = 24 damage (not 30) by my count. And that is every 3.5 seconds.

SRMs in MWO do more than 2 points of damage each. An SRM2 and SSRM2 supposedly deal out 5 points of damage total with both missiles hitting, but the latest patch notes indicate that the SSRM was dealing less damage than designed. Whether that means that it was designed to be doing 5, but was doing less, or that it was designed to be doing more than five but was only doing five I am unsure.

A CPTL-A1 with 6 SSRM2s could have been doing as much as 30 points of damage per volley, or if they were not before this patch, they probably are now, and hopefully not more.

[BlackAce]

1) Streaks are designed to not fire unless they have a solid 100% guaranteed hit chance. That's how they work.

2) There's 100s of ways to counter a Streak Cat.

3) Until the netcode is sorted and collision reappear streak are about the only effective counter to Squirrels.

TL;DR: Deal with it.

[Need4Fail]

BlackAce, on 20 November 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

1) Streaks are designed to not fire unless they have a solid 100% guaranteed hit chance. That's how they work.

2) There's 100s of ways to counter a Streak Cat.

3) Until the netcode is sorted and collision reappear streak are about the only effective counter to Squirrels.

TL;DR: Deal with it.

+1

[Kyone Akashi]

White Bear 84, on 20 November 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

Just stay 270m away from your enemy. Of course.. then at that distance its the lasers that are op

Especially those Small Lasers with their optimum range of 90m, hai?

I for one do believe a weapon system that has the potential to do 30 damage every 3.5 seconds with a 100% accuracy ratio may be something that should be looked into. "Stay away" is a nice theoretical advise that loses its meaning on a battlefield where, by design, players do not have constant 360° awareness and where buildings (through which missile lock can be achieved invisibly as long as a teammate has the target on sensors) obscure vision. Being ambushed should punish the unwary player, but so far the blow was always softened by armaments either lacking in accuracy or in punch. The Streak-Cat breaks with this norm, especially as - depending on the map - it may take quite a bit of time to outrun its range again. And even if you do pull back rather than engaging in knife fighting, this would be time during which you will have to suffer several more 30-damage-salvos hitting your backside. From my experience, at this point one's chances of survival are much better with just engaging the enemy rather than attempting to avoid him.

But we shall see. Also from experience, most things in this game have worked out eventually; the developer is merely fine-tuning now.

BlackAce, on 20 November 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

3) Until the netcode is sorted and collision reappear streak are about the only effective counter to Squirrels.

I am a "squirrel" and have little issue hunting down others.
Fix your network and/or improve your aim.

Unless you are one of those poor people from New Zealand or similarly far away. Those have a legitimate reason to gripe.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 20 November 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[JebusGeist]

After several battles against streak cats it appears that streaks once again target the center torso at all times. The patch notes mention that streaks will now hit 100% of the time, and their damage is now being calculated properly, but does not say that they have reverted to consistently firing at the center torso. Is this intentional?

Edited by JebusGeist, 20 November 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[Pvt Dancer]

It is ******* broken is what it is. I can handle Streaks if they scattered all over the Mech, but all this patch did is put them back to pre-nerf. Take a look out there... everyone is running Streaks and they devestating. Bunch of BS PGI.

[Ryvucz]

My poor little Commando vs a Jenner with two SSRMs, has no chance, and here's why -

As a Commando pilot, I only use the fastest engine available, standard type, to prevent getting cored easily.

But that's not much of a problem anymore, as a Jenner that has two SSRMs, minimum, only has to keep up with the Commando.

The first 3 salvos (6 SSRMs, 100% accuracy) blow off my side torsos and arms with ease, thankfully I have a standard engine, so I can jokingly attempt to run away, just to have two more SSRMs, smack me anywhere in the torso, as they do not appear to hit the head or legs, and I'm done. Yes, I use terrain to attempt to weave in and out of buildings or cliffs, etc, to no avail.

That's my feedback for the current situation in my poor Commando vs a Jenner with SSRMs.

Thank you for your time, I'll be in more matches, more than likely getting my torsos blown off whilst I attempt to unlock elite in my Commandos. XD

If anyone feels that I am whining, please send me some Colby Jack, that's some good cheese. <3

[Roland]

If you are running a standard engine in your commando, then you are doing it wrong. And if you are running the max engine, then it means you must have no weapons or armor on your mech.

So, the problem is that your mech configuration needs a lot of work.

[Pvt Dancer]

Aesaar, on 20 November 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

They're supposed to hit 100%. That's the entire point of Streaks.

That is, unless something gets in the way.

No, that is not how they are suppose to work. They are suppose to still miss, but if you hit, both missiles hit. They are not suppose to hit the same location either.

The current problem is that they auto hit every time you fire (they can not be 'dumb fired') and they hit in the same location. The more streaks you pack on, the more damage to that same location every time. This makes them more powerful than any other weapon in the game, because a AC 20 or Gauss still misses and doesn't hit the same location every time, specially if both shooter and target are moving. This is not even touching upon ammo per ton in comparison.

If you want to fix Streaks, first off, get rid of the lock. It has to be treated the same as a normal SRM. Infact, the worse weapon in the game right now is the SRM 2 because the Streak is that much better than it for only half a ton difference. Let them miss, but if they do hit, both missiles hit (unlike the SRM 2). Ammo reduction is also an option and scattering the streaks over the target is another option.

Either way, something has to be done, and fast.

[BumbaCLot]

Roland, on 20 November 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

If you are running a standard engine in your commando, then you are doing it wrong. And if you are running the max engine, then it means you must have no weapons or armor on your mech.

So, the problem is that your mech configuration needs a lot of work.

1000 times yes.