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The Truth Behind The Ecm Debate
#1
Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM
ECM is OP. It really is. But its OP because of streak cats. I feel that the complete jamming at close range was implemented in direct response to streak cats.
No one doubts this whatsover.
But heres the part thats bad. No one but streak cat pilots wants the configuration to be viable. It was horribly overpowered but hard to address since nerfing the weapon or chassis would have affected other configurations/mechs.
So here is non-cannon ECM as a result.
I love it. Because of how horrible the game was to PUG with streak cats dominating every match.
But now we have LRMs inadvertantly affected. A valid build in my eyes.
Streak cat pilots are arguing to make their build viable again. Their argument is moot. They are to blame for their own situation.
LRM boats are suffering because of their cheese build brothers. They have a valid argument and should be addressed.
Its far too strong for LRMs in its current form. Being limited to 25% range is pretty much gauranteeing that their missiles are useless, making the support role unviable.
In its current form ECM reduces lockon range to 25% of its current amount. Change this to 60% or 70% or even more...you could completely remove the reduced ranged and just increase lock time.
This gives LRM boats the ability to contribute in pug/team matches. While still be limited as intended by ECM but not to the degree that is unnecessary.
As for streak cats. Your FOTM is over. As by nature of FOTM you should be piloting D-DC's with all the money you saved while being OP.
#2
Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:06 PM
#3
Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:23 PM
#4
Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:23 PM
So what?
Now players will have to either group up with players who have ECM or if you play pugs, you will have to step up with a mech with ECM.
This is to counter the ridiculous amounts of "missile boats" that have been running around. Not just LRM missile boats but SSRM Boats.
Evolve with the battlefield or stop playing online games.
I find that most of the complainers about ECM are people who have been playing "easy mode" with LRM/SSRM boats. Now they see their skills put to the test they want to cry about it.
It goes the same for people complaining about AC 2/5 having balanced out. They are up and arms about the game being "broken" and "unbalanced" now.
I keep telling people to skill up and use lasers and they all get *********. lol
This pleases me so much.
Edited by Rocket2Uranus, 06 December 2012 - 05:25 PM.
#5
Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:22 PM
Phatel, on 06 December 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:
The problem is that although it does have a limited range in the sense of having a field 180m in radius, it has a unlimited range in the sense that it prevents all targeting from outside that distance.
As far as counters, you can field ballistic or energy weapons, but the most serious effect of ECM, hiding the unit from being targeted/having that target data shared still affects them. Also, the 'Mechs fielding ECM are usually carrying ballistics or energy weapons anyway, so it isn't much of a counter.
The second counter is TAG, which is currently affected by short range (will be patched, apparently), and the difficulty of holding on target (something that will never go away, especially given the terrain of the maps, even caustic valley).
The third counter is ECM, which is a hard counter (in that it completely nullifies an enemy ECM's effect). However, having a piece of equipment being its own best counter, is forgive the pun, counter-productive, as it actually just encourages use of the equipment more.
#6
Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:36 PM
We have gone from playing chess, to playing checkers, and now we are playing tic-tac-toe. Whats next? What is an even more simplistic strategy game than tic-tac-toe? Ill tell you what is... Mechwarrior Online
Edited by Teralitha, 06 December 2012 - 06:37 PM.
#7
Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:45 PM
Grym, on 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:
ECM is OP. It really is. But its OP because of streak cats. I feel that the complete jamming at close range was implemented in direct response to streak cats.
No one doubts this whatsover....
I hate when people post their thoughts and include me with them...i doubt it, so don't speak for me.
As far as ECM it hasn't really impacted me much that I've seen at all. I get about the same damage, and about the same kill/death ratio as pre-ECM. My tactics haven't changed either. I don't want to hide, I want enemy mechs to know where I am so there is actual combat rather than waiting for minutes for anything to happen. Reminds of MWL drops in MW4:Mercs where 90% of the match is complete and utter boredom and maybe 10% of the time we're in combat...unless there is no combat and we have to re-drop. I can take or leave the way ECM works now functionally, but it does seem to lessen the action...
#8
Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:41 PM
Rocket2Uranus, on 06 December 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:
So what?
Now players will have to either group up with players who have ECM or if you play pugs, you will have to step up with a mech with ECM.
Pretty much this!
I am forced to play 1 of 4 mechs avialable to equip ECM...why we dont delete other mechs and just keep only ECM ones?
#9
Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:48 PM
Phatel, on 06 December 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:
i disagree whole heartedly as only the truely moronic do this then get flanked cause they standout like a sore thumb and they proberbly don't even realise that around 60% of their salvos are not hitting the targets. as it stands lrms are so ineffiecient to use you'd be crazy to and considering the role they had in mech warrior folklore ie over 50% of mechs having an lrm pod some chasis being devoted to missle pods in general i have to say this is a horrible implementaion that has cut the mechwarrior nose of to spite it's face. vulture and madcats have had almost half their traditional build turned redundant in one piece of equipement that's so easy to use you don't even have to mash a button. so glad i'm a laser boat these days.
#10
Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:52 PM
#11
Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:02 PM
ECM's affect on LRMs is that they are to be part of well rounded build and to be used more frequently now at intermediate ranges. Pure LRM boats will be most viable under a coordinated group dynamic, where proper team play is in effect to neutralize ECM threats.
So now, i expect to see mechs with a one or two LRM5s or a LRM10 to supplement their primary arsenal of ACs or Lasers. these guys will use their LRMs to engage targets as rear support for brawlers...firing on non-ECM protected targets or exposed targets of opportunity that fall out of the protective bubble.
That sounds pretty TT to me.
Edited by CocoaJin, 06 December 2012 - 08:05 PM.
#12
Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:34 PM
Now there is no reason to play an awesome or catapult as a support mech.
#14
Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:45 PM
No one doubts this whatsoever."
Actually I think you're entirely wrong.
They appear to be completely separate events that happen to coincide and hit the patches at about the same time. The ECM concept probably been kicking around for months at part of the EW warfare ideas.
They both are overpowered.
#15
Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:51 PM
Grym, on 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:
ECM is OP. It really is. But its OP because of streak cats. I feel that the complete jamming at close range was implemented in direct response to streak cats.
Yes.
Grym, on 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:
So? No one but Jenner pilots want them to be viable. No one but Gausscats wants them to be viable. Just because you don't like a particular build does not make it illegitimate.
Grym, on 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:
And this is where you really lose me. First, streakcats were NOT overpowered; they excelled at killing light mechs, as a heavy specifically dedicated to the task should. You should be thankful that they have nerfed them from TT, or you would be seeing 10xSSRM2 Cats.
Second, the key to fighting them was tactics: If you are lighter, don't let them catch you in the open at close range (easy enough unless you gimped you engine) and take cover to break lock, then slash back in; if you are heavier, then you should have the firepower advantage and be with the group, anyway.
Third, there were many suggestions to moderately nerf the streakcat; cutting the shake/smoke/darken, requiring lock-on after each salvo, etc. I don't agree with it, but whatever.
Finally, the idea that a light mech should be a dangerous opponent for every assault and heavy mech in the game is ridiculous. Of course they should be annoying to most of them, but a low-end heavy that has sacrificed range, flexibility, and direct fire just to hunt lights should be pretty good at it, shouldn't it?
Grym, on 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:
Yea, how dare anyone actually make the best mech possible under the rules at the time!
Grym, on 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:
Ugh, no; Commando-2D with ECM and 3xSSRM2. I call it the Halfcat
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#16
Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:52 PM
LynxFury, on 06 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:
No one doubts this whatsoever."
Actually I think you're entirely wrong.
They appear to be completely separate events that happen to coincide and hit the patches at about the same time. The ECM concept probably been kicking around for months at part of the EW warfare ideas.
I see.
So what weapon is directly affected the worse by not being able to lock on to a target withing 180m? Is this weapon boat-able by specific mech chassis?
So by design of the 180m no-lock what mech configuration was impacted the most? Was this configuration being complained about in the forums?
Do you really think that all of the answers to these questions are mere coincidences coinciding with the death of a FOTM mech config?
Guess the Gauss nerfs arent because there are now 4 mechs able to mount 2 of them. Instead of the former 1 that was constantly complained about.
Edited by Grym, 06 December 2012 - 08:58 PM.
#18
Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:09 PM
Grym, on 06 December 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:
the only group of mechpilots that are affected are lone wolfs... at moment, IF i WAS a streakcat abuser^^^i´d try an C4 with 4 streaks and a tag, it´s better than nothing
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Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 06 December 2012 - 09:10 PM.
#19
Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:10 PM
If the game is meant to be up close with lasers and ACs, then mission accomplished.
#20
Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:20 PM
JudgeDeathCZ, on 06 December 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:
I am forced to play 1 of 4 mechs avialable to equip ECM...why we dont delete other mechs and just keep only ECM ones?
I don't do it because I know how to play and ECM doesn't bother me. I'll play your game though, why don't you?
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