74 replies to this topic

[Filth Pig]

VYCanis, on 04 November 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

If say someone shot an lbx20 point blank into someone's armor stripped CT, it stands a chance that it might splode.

Very good point. It should be almost a choice for the mechwarrior. Do I fire this LBX20 into his CT and risk the explosion or do I try and disable him using something less dramatic.

[Razor Kotovsky]

Sideways, on 04 November 2011 - 11:28 PM, said:

I know, people were doing it about the JJ's....really? its a game, based on another GAME, this is science fiction not a military training simulator...I know I've flown one, LOL

Uh. It only gets to be science fiction if it relies on existing theories. Otherwise it is anime magic.

Magnetically containing plasma is one of those, just as coil/gauss guns. The expected behaviour and results are pretty well described.

VYCanis, on 04 November 2011 - 12:29 PM, said:

If say someone shot an lbx20 point blank into someone's armor stripped CT, it stands a chance that it might splode.

If you want to breach and overload a fusion reactor a gauss is a straight choice as you need maximum penetration and the positive charge of the shell would also help.

Same should go for crits since LBX, while having undisputably dire kinetic effects, doesn't offer as much penetration as gauss does and instead relies on stressing the metal by multiple hits. Once the armor is gone it has, however, free reign over the entire torso section. But reactor shielding? Nah.

Edited by Razor Kotovsky, 04 November 2011 - 11:48 PM.

[Sideways]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 11:31 PM, said:

Uh. It only gets to be science fiction if it relies on existing theories. Otherwise it is magic.

Magnetically containing plasma is one of those, just as coil/gauss guns. The expected behaviour and results are pretty well described.

Fair enough, I wasn't debating how or why or even the specifics of a mech exploding, simply do the players want it to or not. LOL

[Phades]

Over damage causing an engine breach which results in the core going critical i can buy, also the mech should pop if the mech is hot. This was nearly an insignificant afterthought within previous games.

[Kargush]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

Y U TAKE OUT OF CONTEKST

Why are you shouting and resorting to a poor meme with silly grammar?

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Noone ever mentioned meltdown or radiocative materials. Steam explosion.

You brought up Chernobyl. By extension, radioactive materials and meltdown, the very things that led to the incident at Chernobyl.

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You see, water rushed in the overheat reactor when the piping melt. It turned to steam and went off with the force of a thousand suns.
Here we have plasma and air, possibly water too.

I'm a fan of nuclear power generation as an alternative to fossil fuels. There is no need to lecture me on what happened at Chernobyl. I'm also old enough to (barely) recall some of the news headlines and stories, in fact.

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Cold and hot. Building tremendous pressure in the process of exchanging heat. Grasp any of this?

If I didn't, I'd not be writing this out, as I'd be unable to do much more than scratch my bottom and grunt.

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And i sure as hell never compared the power of Chernobyl to a mech's reactor breach.

Is that so? You brought up Chernobyl by saying, and I quote:

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Chernobyl, too, was just a steam explosion. Just sayin'.

You drew a parallell between the events at Chernobyl (where a reactor went into meltdown) and what happens when a fictional fusion reactor is breached. If you actually managed to pay any attention to what was in the section you quoted back at me, you would see how silly that is. First of all, said fictional reactor cannot go into a meltdown. Second of all, the heat in this fictional reactor ignites the air, rushing out in a white-hot flame. Fire and steam are not the same, as I assume you know. Let me quote the relevant section again. Emphasis is entirely my doing.

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What normally happens is that the reactor core is breached allowing a large quantity of relatively cold air into the vacuum of the reactor chamber which puts out the fusion reaction instantly... but in so doing, the intruding air in the reactor chamber soaks up all the heat and comes blasting back out in a white-hot blinding gout of flame.

So, why are you taking things out of context?

[infinite xaer0]

Razor Kotovsky, on 04 November 2011 - 06:48 AM, said:

I'm ignorant in this matter. Please explain without sending me to wikipedia, if you would be so kind.

i guess other posters kinda explained this, but whatever:

1. you can't have a runaway fusion reaction, because the reaction itself is very unstable, so even if there's some sort of catastrophic failure, the reactor will automatically shut down 2. energy isn't extracted from the reactor via steam turbines, so even if things start to overheat, you're not going to get hydrogen buildup like in fission reactors that meltdown. I believe it's the ignition of that hydrogen that causes the spectacular explosions in the first place.

[Sergei Smirnov]

Small chance is best. No need to frighten unless reactor breach. Maybe overheat as well.

[CaveMan]

Put me down as against Stackpoling 'Mechs. Fusion reactors go *poof*, not *BOOM*. Ammunition goes *BOOM*.

_{(And against Stackpole, for that matter, I think he's a hack. But that's another discussion...)}

[Colaessus]

Its a game, based on another GAME, this is science fiction not a military training simulator.

Can some one show me a fusion reactor that are in these mechs in real life so we ca really see how they react.
Cars in movie blow up real nice but myth buster proved its wrong.

[Kyzar Kon]

Large Ammo Explosion- yes

Large Gauss Explosion- yes

Overheated Mech Fires-yes

Critical Engine Explosion-no

[Thomas Covenant]

There should be bleeding edge engines with a critical detonation chance penalty.

[blinkin]

http://youtu.be/9X5LP4hJu9k?t=2m13s

[Rebas Kradd]

Who cares what BT canon says. If it'll look cool, I say do it.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Devs have said no Stackpole'ing. Of course they have changed their mind before, but unrealistic runaway reactors annoyed me since MW3 though that game had very strict conditions for them.

[Lord Psycho]

It should nuke if I overheat by alot.....

[Lightfoot]

The history of this request is pretty long and so far they have said no. However, it is an expected part of the iconic MechWarrior lore. Maybe it didn't happen to often in the books or TT, but even PGI used it in their first promo video for what later became MWO. So they know it resonates strongly and sets the stage for 31st Century Mech Combat. It's part of the sci-fi RP heritage of the game.

Now the question of splash damage is usually rejected because it interferes with close range combat, so we throw that option out. Plausable since the mechs are well armored. What we want is the nuke flash and thunder, but no damage. Maybe an EMP burst, but that's all. We want it to happen occasionally, but not every game. I say we because this question has been hashed over so much that this is the consensus of the majority of players. Been polled many times.

Maybe someday, eh?

[blinkin]

Lightfoot, on 08 April 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

The history of this request is pretty long and so far they have said no. However, it is an expected part of the iconic MechWarrior lore. Maybe it didn't happen to often in the books or TT, but even PGI used it in their first promo video for what later became MWO. So they know it resonates strongly and sets the stage for 31st Century Mech Combat. It's part of the sci-fi RP heritage of the game.

Now the question of splash damage is usually rejected because it interferes with close range combat, so we throw that option out. Plausable since the mechs are well armored. What we want is the nuke flash and thunder, but no damage. Maybe an EMP burst, but that's all. We want it to happen occasionally, but not every game. I say we because this question has been hashed over so much that this is the consensus of the majority of players. Been polled many times.

Maybe someday, eh?

i won't claim to know for sure what the majority, but i agree with everything you said EXCEPT i would like it to do a large amount of damage within a small radius. i am also an SRM catapult brawler, i want more risk in the game.

[Pht]

Mech fusion reactors don't explode like mini-nukes. It's actually impossible for them to do so in the lore.

This whole thing is because stackpole liked to blow everything sky-high, regardless of how un-kosher that might be.

[Lightfoot]

Pht, on 08 April 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Mech fusion reactors don't explode like mini-nukes. It's actually impossible for them to do so in the lore.

This whole thing is because stackpole liked to blow everything sky-high, regardless of how un-kosher that might be.

True, but they can vent the energetic blinding white hot plasma that was being fused when the reactor was ruptured. Thats what makes the heat spiking from mech operation. Moving, firing weapons, etc. Fusion is a very hot event even with so-called cold fusion. Normal fusion of hydrogen occurs at around 6000-8000 K if pressures are right.

I see MechWarrior fantasy tech as being trapped in a conundrum on this. Saying Mechs overheat from the need to cool Fusion Reactors that work with no containment pressure. It can't happen, and when that pressure is released, it's similar to a balloon popping, except in this case the material under containment is white hot and you see it as a blinding white hot flash.

It would look like this, maybe a bit smaller and shorter though.



It's why Mech pilots want to eject from the mech. Otherwise it would be much safer for pilots to remain in the well-armored mech cockpit. More conundrum.

So run you naysayers. You can't escape the world of exploding mechs that MechWarrior lore is based on and revolves around. MWO should embrace the idea that Mechs can explode from a loss of reactor containment. It would bring more realistic roleplay of 31st century Mech combat. Even if the sudden plasma flash caused no damage to mechs.

Edited by Lightfoot, 08 April 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[Pht]

Lightfoot, on 08 April 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

True, but they can vent the energetic blinding white hot plasma that was being fused when the reactor was ruptured.

Actually, they virtually can't vent their plasma - contact with atmosphere snuffs the plasma out. The blinding gout of "white flame" is actually a rampaging oxygen fire caused by the intruding atmosphere absorbing all the heat of the plasma and than rushing back out as it expands.

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Thats what makes the heat spiking from mech operation. Moving, firing weapons, etc. Fusion is a very hot event even with so-called cold fusion. Normal fusion of hydrogen occurs at around 6000-8000 K if pressures are right.

Actually, a 'mech's myomers generate heat and they have to be laced with coolant lines because of this... so it's not just the fusion engine that makes things heat up.

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I see MechWarrior fantasy tech as being trapped in a conundrum on this. Saying Mechs overheat from the need to cool Fusion Reactors that work with no containment pressure.

They do have containment pressure on the plasma. It's magnetic pressure - otherwise, the fusion reaction cores are a vacuum, to help preserve the heat levels in the plasma ball.

http://mwomercs.com/...y-an-education/ The section on fusion engine explosions explains what "really" happens.

Edited by Pht, 12 April 2013 - 03:17 PM.