43 replies to this topic

[MadogPL]

hallo.

First, I'm new to this game. I'm getting used to all of it aspects but one thing is quite unnatural to me.

It's a movement backward. I use mouse + keybord for gameplay.

---- you can skip to the next post----

I have to explain this on exaple: It would be best to imagine moving in circles. You move foward, press turn left (A) and you turn left. You make circle.

Now stop. Trottle backward (still holding Left - A )

What I expect is mech should continue to move on that circle, but in oposite way (backwards). But... it doesnt. It turns the other way. it makes "S" (form moving foward to move backward).

Is there any way, to make it "normal" (for me).

I want to push backward button, and left button, and torso should turn around left arm, not right arm. Is it possible to make it happen?

Script? Editing? Option in game?

If it's not understandable - I can draw it

Edited by MadogPL, 29 December 2012 - 06:04 AM.

[MadogPL]

This is what I'm thinking about


The only reason I find this understandable is maybe running totally backward with 180 twisted torso...

Or maybe on joystick it's normal?

[Sangson]

MadogPL, on 29 December 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

This is what I'm thinking about


The only reason I find this understandable is maybe running totally backward with 180 twisted torso...

Or maybe on joystick it's normal?

Your pic makes me think you´d just have to press backward and right to do the desired move...?

[MadogPL]

Sangson, on 29 December 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Your pic makes me think you´d just have to press backward and right to do the desired move...?

Well... Yes But that's the similar case to "invert Y mouse". Some play with inverted mouse (like in simulators) some with "normal".

In heat of battle, I'm used to press backward and left to go... backward and left, not backward and right. It would be nice to have that option, especially when I find no reson in battle mechanic to move as it is.

I can lern this odd bahaviour but in all other games (every car/tank/FPS/anything) backward + left is normal.

And the most funny thing is... that I couldn't find any complain about it in forum. I have no idea why. I can't find in my mind ANY game that when you press S+A you go opposite way

If any dev would be so kind to answer my question, I would be most gracious.

edit: I was thinking about modify code like this guy did (taken from other topic):

Bigboote, on 15 November 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Holski77

Holski77 Did you ever find the answer to your question or did you conform to the default. I would like to scroll it too. Funny how when you ask a question like this there is always someone to play captain obvious and few who even try to answer.



Something like this in C:\Games\Piranha Games\MechWarrior Online\USER\Profiles\(name)\actionmaps.xml seems to work.

<ActionMaps Version="10">
<actionmap name="mech">
  <action name="m_decreaseThrottle">
   <rebind device="keyboard" input="mwheel_down" index="0" defaultInput="s"/>
  </action>
  <action name="m_increaseThrottle">
   <rebind device="keyboard" input="mwheel_up" index="0" defaultInput="w"/>
  </action>
</actionmap>
</ActionMaps>

But I'm no programmer, so any help would be nice

Edited by MadogPL, 30 December 2012 - 03:58 AM.

[Aurias]

MadogPL, on 30 December 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

And the most funny thing is... that I couldn't find any complain about it in forum. I have no idea why. I can't find in my mind ANY game that when you press S+A you go opposite way

I think that's because of the disconnect between car/tank mechanical controls and 'Mech mechanical controls. When a car is driving backwards, its control is reversed because it's on a pivot. Legs don't have this limitation, and would control as they do in game, I think.

Of course, you're free to attempt rebinding... I don't have any idea how, though. Good luck and happy hunting.

[Riktor Voshek]

It works as you describe in World of Tanks, and I find that incredible unintuative and annoying.

In both WoT and MWO, you're not driving a car. You can rotate the vehicle chassis completely independantly from moving forwards and backwards. In MWO "Rotate Chassis Left" always means exactly that, it doesn't magically change as your mech slows then goes into reverse, and it makes perfect sense to me that way. It would feel even stranger in MWO than it does in WoT due to the throttle mechanic.

Imagine you're playing a completely normal FPS game. In that, "rotate chassis left / right" is accomplished by moving the mouse left and right. What you're asking for, to me, would be like reversing the mouse left and right when you happen to be walking backwards.

All that said, I'd be all for having it as an "invert mouse" style option, and I'd love to see the same thing added to WoT as well. I don't believe it would be possible without the devs specifically coding it as an option, as the "switch" to invert the turn direction would have to be based on the current speed of the mech, not based on you pressing forward / back or even the throttle position.

[Adridos]

Riktor Voshek, on 30 December 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

It works as you describe in World of Tanks, and I find that incredible unintuative and annoying.

Thesy added it in one of the later patches because I'm pretty sure it was normal back when I played it.

OP, this is natural way of it happening. When you reverse, the sides always change. It works like this in most games I know, so it's pretty natural to me and judging by the fact you're the first to complain, most people.

Edited by Adridos, 30 December 2012 - 04:40 AM.

[Riktor Voshek]

Adridos, on 30 December 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

OP, this is natural way of it happening. When you reverse, the sides always change. It works like this in most games I know, so it's pretty natural to me and judging by the fact you're the first to complain, most people.

Actually, the OP is pointing out that in MWO the side *doesn't* change when you reverse. If you're thinking of the Mech as a car, it feels strange. If you think of it as a tank, it makes sense. WoT uses car style controls for some reason. I literally just played a round of both to make sure I was right.

WoT:
Hold A to turn left
Tap S on and off to go between stationary and moving backwards
Result: Direction of rotation changes between counter-clockwise and clockwise as you go between stationary and reverse

MWO:
Hold A to turn left
Change throttle such that you go between stationary and reverse
Result: Direction of rotation doesn't change, you turn at a constant speed counter-clockwise

Now, why WoT uses car controls for its tank game, I have no idea, but the OP is correct in pointing out that MWO does at least handle it differently.

[MadogPL]

Aurias, on 30 December 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

Legs don't have this limitation, and would control as they do in game, I think.

Well... for me those legs do not differ from tank tracks. Can they strafe? No. They move only foward and backward. They can't even jump but thanks for answering anyhow

@Riktor Voshek: it works not only in WoT, but in any game... matter of fact I would have to install MW4 to check it out, because I don't remember there was this "legs behavior". Yes it's more car-like.

BattleMech is quite often reffered as tank with legs. I'm sorry, but those legs are just instead of wheels or track. They can move only foward and backward. No other function. It's cool that way, but nothing practical

You are quite strict to what manual say. I want to push Backward and Left I go Backward and Left. Change "Rotate Chasis Left" into "Turn Left (or Move With Legs Left)" and we are good to go No magic happens. Just lesslogic and more user-friendly.

I get your point (but I don't agree with invert-backward-mouse argument), but it's just an option, not a crusade against simulation-uniqe-mech-contols.

So don't get annoyed, sit back and relax If dev's will listen, maybe both of us will be happy

I've just checked how is in WoT. It's indeed "inverted" while riding backward. BUT, thing is: I didn't noticed this un-logic even after a year of playing WoT, and I didn't found strange behavior of my tank, that "torso should rotate left because maual say so".

My opinion is: more user-friendly and probably more popular is "unlogical" backward movement (measurment by succes of WoT). Movement as it is is more "realistic" but it's opposite in most of games.

Maybe on joystick it's not an issule... don't know.

I can get used to it, no problem, but it would be nice to have an option (like invert mouse).

edit:

but to trully be honest... I never drove a tank. But from I know, designers of tanks are trying all effords to make it closest to driving a car (to any ***** in tank could drive it).

If I step accelerate-pedal in tank, ale turn T-weel left, it should turn left. Right track is rotating faster, left track is at stop/slower/moving backwards.

If I change gear, to reverse, and turn T-weel left... what you expect?

Edited by MadogPL, 30 December 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[Riktor Voshek]

Oh I'm not annoyed you've brought the topic up, I think you just brought back memories of me dying in tight turning fights in WoT when the direction change caught me out Again, I agree I'd like to see it as an option in both games.

One thing I will ask you, though: Do you think the fact the W and S keys in MWO are setting a throttle rather than actually moving you backwards and forwards would confuse this situation? In your original example, you said "I want to push backward button, and left button, and torso should turn around left arm, not right arm" but that doesn't take the throttle mechanic into account. You presumably wouldn't want the direction of rotation to change until the throttle position has gone down to reverse, and then the mech has decelerated and finally started actually going backwards. Do you think that delay (a good few seconds for most mechs) would make the direction change feel less natural? And further that the direction would continue to be reversed all the time your going backwards, even when you're not holding the S key?

(I realise I'm taking this more into the realms of a theoretical design discussion now, but I find it an interesting topic )

[MadogPL]

Riktor Voshek, on 30 December 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

One thing I will ask you, though: Do you think the fact the W and S keys in MWO are setting a throttle rather than actually moving you backwards and forwards would confuse this situation?

Well... answer is quick and witout a doubt: no, it won't confuse. In WoT tanks also do not react in an instant, there is also delay, and throttle mechanism.I almost never use W-S keys, only R-F (throttle 1/3,2/3,3/3).

It's again a Car-like-experience. If you drive foward, turn left, break till stop, then without moving drivingweel (imaginary, you still holding (A)Left key) you put reverse, you will make circle, not S shape.

Like I said, it's most common car-like behaviour, that is event taken by military designers into consideration. Why would mech-designers think otherwise?

[MadogPL]

Another quick look: Battlefield 2 (and probably 3). All have Car-like reverse.

[Sangson]

MadogPL, on 30 December 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

Well,meanwhile I had that problem too,by intuition I expected the mech to move otherwise.
Guess most players just cope with it,just thinkin they can´t change anyway..`whaddayaknow,that´s just the way that game is.Let´s go and play some more farm-o-rama.´
Wish you luck on the devs changing it..

[evilC]

I know a way it *should* be able to be done, but unfortunately I cannot get it to work in MWO at the moment.
You should be able to use GlovePIE and PPJoy to create a virtual axis that controls speed.
If speed is being controlled by the virtual axis, my script knows whether you are going forwards or backwards, and as such could invert the movement if going backwards.

However, as noted in my thread here, MWO currently does not seem to recognise PPJoy virtual joysticks. If someone could solve that issue, here is the GlovePIE script to do what you want:

 
if key.Shift+W then
   var.throttle = 1
else if key.Shift+S then
   var.throttle = 0.5
else if key.Shift+X then
   var.throttle = -1
else if key.W then
   var.throttle += .01
else if key.S then
   var.throttle -= .01
end
 
if var.throttle >= 0 then
   key.K = Swallow(key.A);
   key.L = Swallow(key.D);
else
   key.K = Swallow(key.D);
   key.L = Swallow(key.A);
end
 
if var.throttle > 1
   var.throttle = 1
else if var.throttle < -1
   var.throttle = -1
end
 
ppjoy.Analog3 = var.throttle

If MWO recognised the virtual axis, you would need to set turn left and right to L and K. This is because I do not know how to get GlovePIE to swap two buttons, so we map turn to LK and have the script hit L or K as appropriate when A or D is pressed. You would also need to unmap W and S from speed in the game, as it is now handled by the PPJoy virtual axis.

Edited by evilC, 01 January 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[MadogPL]

thanks for the answer.

Hope dev's will take it into consideration.

[Silencer84]

Hey Madog,

interesting topic, I never even thought of something like that.

Maybe thinking about it this way will help:

In "car-mode", when you press left and forward or backward, the car doesn't magically know which way to rotate. The front wheels are turned in a counter-clockwise fashion, thus moving the car to the left from a birds-eye view no matter if you move forward or backward.

In "mech-mode", on the other hand, you have no wheels that determine where you move. Turning and acceleration are two things not connected in this way at all.

I suggest the following keymapping to try if you still feel problems:
Q = Accelerate
A = Full Stop
Y = Decelerate (or Z if you use a US-Style Keyboard)
S = turn left
F = turn right

This way it will feel more like a "throttle stick" than the common WASD-Movement.

Edited by Silencer84, 09 January 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[MadogPL]

Silencer84, on 09 January 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

In "mech-mode", on the other hand, you have no wheels that determine where you move. Turning and acceleration are two things not connected in this way at all.

I fully understand this behavior, but does tank has fronweels? Nope. Still modern tanks are driven similar to cars (from what I've heard).

Anyhow - thank you for answering

[XphR]

The good news is many people would like a toggle for this function in option and I believe (after many requests) it was stated to have been added a list of future options that will be added.

[rupsu]

This thing is a show stopper for me, at least.

I can not play MWO until "invert turning in reverse" is implemented because it messes with my head and I start having trouble reversing in World of Tanks. Rationalising between "car mode / mech mode" won't help, I tried.

Oh and while you're at it, add option for adjusting FoV, because missing that will also keep some people from playing MWO. Because they get motion sickness if the FoV is wrong. Add a tooltip that suggests people try for some usually used FoVs if current one causes nausea.

[Saimud]

Hi, any chance that this will be implemented anytime soon? I would love to be an active player, but playing without the choice for invert backward movement makes it a no-go to play for me. It should not be to dificult to do, so I am wondering what the problem is...