64 replies to this topic

[Ashnod]

Take away the complete jamming of locks(streak/lrm) but instead have it increase there lock on time, same thing for radar detection from LOS. Make mechs unable to detect that there being jammed unless they have beagle active probe equipped (like in lore).

decrease streak SRM lock on time but require a new lock for every time it's fired 1 Lock = 1 Shot(like in TT rolling to see if lock is achieved)


Thoughts, comments?

Edited by Ashnod, 17 January 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Badgerbanger]

Devs hate lock on weapons because they played badly and got killed lots by them in the Hunt the Dev competition, at least one came and complained on forums. You'd think that they of all people would try and use terrain and tactics rather than try and rambo assaults and heavies while piloting their light mechs
Expect no changes

[Ashnod]

IMO this would balance out ECM while increasing its effectiveness in a pure scouting role(not alarming all mechs that your in there presence via low signal unless they have beagle) and making SSRM's require some skill and allowing non missile hard point lights viable (spider etc)

[Critical Fumble]

Yes to ECM.

Personally, though, I want them to totally re-work streak missiles. Have the player trigger them, then hold on target for the lock duration, and if they succeed the missiles pop out and maul the poor fool, but if the lock fails, nothing happens. Then we'd have something reasonable, while still being valuable.

Edited by Critical Fumble, 03 January 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[Ashnod]

Critical Fumble, on 03 January 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

Yes to ECM.

Personally, though, I want them to totally re-work streak missiles. Have the player trigger them, then hold on target for the lock duration, and if they succeed the missiles pop out and maul the poor fool, but if the lock fails, nothing happens. Then we'd have something reasonable, while still being valuable.

Technically wouldn't that be almost the same thing as my proposed change except mine takes RNG out of the equation? That sounds nice on paper but what if your playing with streaks one day and have a fail to lock 5+ times in a row? RNG does happen :/

The chance for missiles not firing just being the pilot unable to finish the lock.

Edited by Ashnod, 03 January 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[Critical Fumble]

Ashnod, on 03 January 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Technically wouldn't that be almost the same thing as my proposed change except mine takes RNG out of the equation? That sounds nice on paper but what if your playing with streaks one day and have a fail to lock 5+ times in a row? RNG does happen :/

The chance for missiles not firing just being the pilot unable to finish the lock.

No RNG, lock acquisition like with LRMs and SSRMs currently, though with a smaller margin of error possibly. Note:

Critical Fumble, on 03 January 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

Spoiler

Yes to ECM.
Personally, though, I want them to totally re-work streak missiles. Have the player trigger them,

then hold on target for the lock duration

Spoiler

, and if they succeed the missiles pop out and maul the poor fool, but if the lock fails, nothing happens. Then we'd have something reasonable, while still being valuable.

It would make a streak user play by the same rules as a medium laser user, with the benefit that you would only gain heat and lose ammo if you actually landed a hit.

[Codejack]

That's workable; I don't think that streaks need any nerfs, but if chain-firing is ****ing people off that badly, that's a reasonable solution to the problem.

Another reasonable solution would be to let BAP and NARC counter ECM inside the bubble. Yes, yes, that's completely different from TT, but so is ECM. NARC should allow lock from anywhere if it hits a mech (it's limited enough as it is), and BAP should be able to "burn through" ECM to detect and target it, although still not share data from inside the bubble.

Thontor, on 03 January 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

If we go by how it was in TT, being jammed by ECM should just make streaks behave like regular SRMs...

That was only Angel ECM, even then, and still shouldn't do half the stuff MWO ECM does.

Thontor, on 03 January 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Then again, TAG should still work inside 180m too...

Yea, I have no idea how they are justifying ECM blocking a laser.

[Tarantoga]

is not blocking tag laser, its jamming your systems to not work properly, tho ecm in current state is stupidly overpowered for its weight costs and has no disadvantages, the fact that only real counter is other ecm and that only few mechs can equip it adds even more imbalance

i honestly have no idea what the f devs are doing with release like this ecm or some eco changes a while back when you were earning **** on trail mechs no matter if you win or lose, such changes are obviously bad for any one having at least slight game knowledge yet devs release such changes, they stay for a while after month(s) of complaints things usually get fixed, but this doesnt leave good impression on devs qualifications

[siLve00]

Thontor, on 03 January 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

If we go by how it was in TT, being jammed by ECM should just make streaks behave like regular SRMs...

Then again, TAG should still work inside 180m too...

this isnt TT and i dont wana rolle a dice in MW:O ...

ECM is fine.. streaks are fine.. lrms are fine ... everything is fine.. and were even fine before they bring up ECM.
why always argue over such stuff ?
use it or let it alone... this whole forum is just one huge sink pit for tears.

and btw there is a suggestion forum ^^

[Ashnod]

siLve00, on 03 January 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

this isnt TT and i dont wana rolle a dice in MW:O ...

ECM is fine.. streaks are fine.. lrms are fine ... everything is fine.. and were even fine before they bring up ECM.
why always argue over such stuff ?
use it or let it alone... this whole forum is just one huge sink pit for tears.

and btw there is a suggestion forum ^^

suggestion forum hardly gets read though in comparison to the general discussion

[GetinmyBellah]

I have to agree with you on many valid points you've made, Ashnod. I also agree moving to suggestion topic will only have these ideas and discussions buried along with thousands of others.

[Erik Hollister]

Critical Fumble, on 03 January 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

Yes to ECM.

Personally, though, I want them to totally re-work streak missiles. Have the player trigger them, then hold on target for the lock duration, and if they succeed the missiles pop out and maul the poor fool, but if the lock fails, nothing happens. Then we'd have something reasonable, while still being valuable.

Huh.... why would you ever load streaks if this was the mechanism? What you describe is basically the mechanism for a laser, with the added penalty that you have to hold the target for the entire target acquistion time. With lasers, even if you pan across, you do some damage. i see you working, but I think the plan needs more work.

Add in the lag issues, and I can see running around all fight trying to target your ssrms... "a little left of the mech... no... a little more left.... nope. Huh, maybe if I aim off to the right?"

Edited by Erik Hollister, 03 January 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[Codejack]

Vegentius, on 03 January 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

I have to agree with you on many valid points you've made, Ashnod. I also agree moving to suggestion topic will only have these ideas and discussions buried along with thousands of others.

Why do you think they did it?

[rodanoS]

Ashnod, on 03 January 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Take away the complete jamming of locks(streak/lrm) but instead have it increase there lock on time, same thing for radar detection from LOS. Make mechs unable to detect that there being jammed unless they have beagle active probe equipped (like in lore).

decrease streak SRM lock on time but require a new lock for every time it's fired (like in TT rolling to see if lock is achieved)


Thoughts, comments?

Sounds cool. ECM shouldn't block SSRM entirely, but should interrupt them.

[Critical Fumble]

Erik Hollister, on 03 January 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Huh.... why would you ever load streaks if this was the mechanism? What you describe is basically the mechanism for a laser, with the added penalty that you have to hold the target for the entire target acquistion time. With lasers, even if you pan across, you do some damage. i see you working, but I think the plan needs more work.

Add in the lag issues, and I can see running around all fight trying to target your ssrms... "a little left of the mech... no... a little more left.... nope. Huh, maybe if I aim off to the right?"

If they use something similar to what they have for lock on weapons, I don't see how the 140 km/h ghosts would be an issue. Or wait until they fix the netcode problems. Then we could get some fully legitimate data on how effective all the weapons really are.

Part of the problem we have with weapons in the game is that when they translated them into the game, they gave some wildly different trigger to impact mechanics. My understanding is that most TT weapons had a similar chance to hit within their respective effective range bands. However, in MW:O, some weapons are simply easier to hit with. They are mostly ok - when netcode and firing delay issues are rectified, the difference between ballistics (including PPCs) and lasers should match up pretty evenly. There are, however, a number of screwball weapons, like MGs and flamers being continuous fire weapons; LRMs that don't require a "gunnery roll" to hit, but rather a failed "piloting roll" on the part of the target (understandable given the flight time, but still); and SSRMs which in theory are a trade-off in weight for ammo efficiency relative to SRMs, but with the way lock on mechanics work a SRM-2 simply does not compare to a SSRM-2.

You do have a point about the failure to fire if you miss, although its the same issue as if you miss with a ballistic weapon while not losing any ammo or heat and being able to try again immediately. Maybe have some mitigated success effect for it; as in you have a lock time of 1 second, and have to hold for 0.9 seconds for a full fire, but if you manage to get 0.4 to 0.5 seconds, half of them fire.

[Ashnod]

Erik Hollister, on 03 January 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Huh.... why would you ever load streaks if this was the mechanism? What you describe is basically the mechanism for a laser, with the added penalty that you have to hold the target for the entire target acquistion time. With lasers, even if you pan across, you do some damage. i see you working, but I think the plan needs more work.

Add in the lag issues, and I can see running around all fight trying to target your ssrms... "a little left of the mech... no... a little more left.... nope. Huh, maybe if I aim off to the right?"

Well.. This change can go into effect after the net code is fixed, but currently there is no reason to run SRM's over streaks on a light mech and it would also make skill actually matter with them, a good player will be able to gain locks more often etc etc, an SRM 2 will actually be viable in some cases over a streak as you would not have to wait for a lock to fire.. Hell there's people who run streaks over 6's just for the no skill 100% chance to hit after achieving lock once while in lore you are supposed to have to regain lock every time (computer having to work out a new 100% chance to hit)

[Asmudius Heng]

Made my thoughts on this known here:

http://mwomercs.com/...m-tagnarc-post/

[Wraithfox]

Badgerbanger, on 03 January 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

Devs hate lock on weapons because they played badly and got killed lots by them in the Hunt the Dev competition, at least one came and complained on forums. You'd think that they of all people would try and use terrain and tactics rather than try and rambo assaults and heavies while piloting their light mechs
Expect no changes

You can't use terrain because all they have to do is lock you and aim at the target box, Doesn't matter if a mountain is in the way or if god is in the way, That missile boat would still achieve the lock. As for stopping the missiles with terrain? Perhaps you spend too much of your life camping in your missile boat, To block LRMs you have to dry hump a straight up wall, other wise they just fly over the mountain and hit.

You cheeserboats are just mad you have to have to leave the safety of your mountain to hit ecm lights.

You say nerf ecm? I say nerf LRMS. Decrease range to 850m, Leave damage as is, drop the ammo count per ton from 180 to 100. This isn't tabletop, You can take your tabletop rules and cram them where the sun will never shine. I don't want a game from 20 years ago ruining my experience. The people who don't know about table top FAR outnumber the diehards that do.

[Ashnod]

bump

[Faldrin]

I like the OP idea!

Brought 2 ECM mech's and each time with in 4 games sold them! ECM is way of the charts its like the LRM god mode patch just the other side of the coin.