60 replies to this topic

[blinkin]

this is not intended as a nerf or a buff. this is a complete rework to make streaks more interesting.

i am sorry i know there are a lot of posts about streaks. i did try to add my suggestion to those, but they were quickly burried by the people yelling back and forth about how ignorant the other person is.

my opinion is that with the lag shield mostly fixed now streaks will probably fall in line with the rest of the weapon systems, but at the moment they are kind of boring.

now for the actual suggestion:

• forget everything about how streaks work right now
  
• streaks will stream out of launchers one at a time (becomes more important when streak 4 and 6 are added)
  
• streaks will only launch if the crosshair is over an enemy mech component
  
• streaks will stop coming out if the reticle is no longer on an enemy component. resulting in launchers firing partial volleys. (an SSRM6 might only fire 4 or 5 missiles because the reticle left the target before it finished.)
  
• while in flight streaks will head directly towards the crosshair no matter what it is pointed at, even if it moves (this will take away the 100% accuracy) OR for the TT purists / people who don't like the laser guidance mechanic. instead each missile goes directly toward whatever component the reticle was pointed at when the missile fired.
  
• ECM will randomly interrupt guidance system causing missiles to be unreliable but still usable
  
• streaks will have a maximum flight time (270m)
  
• streaks will need to be much more agile than they currently are

streaks will become guided weapons that follow the crosshair instead of just going after locked targets. spread will come from the cross hairs moving around on target as the line of missiles hits.

• you will be able to do precision fire with them, hitting specific components
  
• you will be required to keep your crosshairs on target until the missiles hit
  
• you will have to work harder to hit with streaks (especially mechs moving at high speed either hitting high speed mechs or using them with high speed mechs)

this will add much more risk and reward to streaks.


EDIT: added in an alternative option that would be closer to table top rules, and added in a small clarification to the firing rules.


other streak modifications that might help:
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1
http://mwomercs.com/...nd-is-in-place/

Edited by blinkin, 01 April 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[focuspark]

So it's a missile machine gun?

[Adrienne Vorton]

well... sounds okay... i´d take them this way

[Attalward]

humm well since i use streaks mainly to scare lights off my surroundings i wouldnt like to have to maintain my crosshair over my target all the fly time.
That would be useless against fast lights.
Also the one at a time effect seems weird.

I dont really like your suggestion.

[Rovertoo]

It sounds like the MW4 method, which I liked.

[blinkin]

focuspark, on 27 January 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

So it's a missile machine gun?

with guided bullets. the missiles would turn toward the crosshair during flight.

this would still be effective against lights. not the insta hit just pull trigger that it was before, but all you would have to do is keep the reticle over the mech until the missile hit. as far as aiming it would work just like a laser with a delayed hit.

[focuspark]

This suggestions would give streaks good synergy with lasers then. Would the targeting point be related to the location the launcher is mounted.

[Antarius]

nice idea, like it.

[Attalward]

Changed my mind ddint remember i already do that with lasers.

SO i now support your idea since i can use my lasers as a pointer for the ssrm

[Fut]

blinkin, on 02 February 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

with guided bullets. the missiles would turn toward the crosshair during flight.

How would the missiles know whether to go towards the 'Mech you're chasing down with your crosshairs (during the 270m flight) or towards whatever is in the background?

[Metafox]

I like the idea of changing or even overhauling the SSRM system, especially in preparation for the clan SSRMs. While you've got some good ideas, the proposed system sounds too much like lasers. There are some minor differences between this and lasers, but I'd rather see a functionally unique SSRM system, or at least something similar to (but not the same as) SRMs.

[ExAstris]

Something will have to be done with SSRMs before we get the 4 and 6 models into the game. I've not seen too many suggestions on how to modify their behavior to work with the larger versions, and this one seems like it might be worth a try.

Also, streaming SSRMs would also make AMS more effective against them, which helps preserve the value of the mitigation tool, as it is currently worthless against SRMs due to point blank volley fire.

Other, less complicated options to help balance SSRMs against SRMs is to require them to reaquire lock between every shot (which is apparently what you had to do in TT, but potentially messes with SSRM/LRM loadouts), or more simply, increase the delay between shots (increased cycle time, my favorite) to represent the extra bit of time the fire-control computer needs to feed the SSRMs their target information, where SRMs are just hotloaded and ready to fire. This would give SRMs a decided DPS advantage, but give SSRMs a consistency/accuracy advantage. And finally, just a little modification to the SSRM spread would go along way too, they're effectiveness would be vastly reduced if 3 or so out of every 10 missiles went after an arm or leg.

Currently, barring ECM (which shouldn't even prevent missile lock imo), there is no reason to ever take the SRM2 over the SSRM2. A worse fire-rate on the SSRM2 would help skew the SSRM's usability towards difficult to hit targets, while the SRMs overall superior DPS would be preferred against heavier targets that do not require auto-tracking to hit. Voila, weapon roles and balance.

[Gaan Cathal]

Manually-guided missiles sound good to me, the real problem at the moment is a: impossible tracking movement and b: fire-and-forget nature. Solves both, introduces skill as a factor. Kind of produces an 'aiming skill requirement' ladder. Missiles->Lasers->Ballistics in order of difficulty, which I think works. I would however say you should maintain a clustered launch. Sequential launching will make it far too easy to land every missile on a single component, which will throw them totally out of whack in terms of delivered damage.

[blinkin]

Gaan Cathal, on 04 February 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Manually-guided missiles sound good to me, the real problem at the moment is a: impossible tracking movement and b: fire-and-forget nature. Solves both, introduces skill as a factor. Kind of produces an 'aiming skill requirement' ladder. Missiles->Lasers->Ballistics in order of difficulty, which I think works. I would however say you should maintain a clustered launch. Sequential launching will make it far too easy to land every missile on a single component, which will throw them totally out of whack in terms of delivered damage.

the point was that they kept following the reticle until they hit, so subsequent missiles might be directed to a different component or miss entirely. again much like how lasers sweep across targets currently.

[Gaan Cathal]

blinkin, on 04 February 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

the point was that they kept following the reticle until they hit, so subsequent missiles might be directed to a different component or miss entirely. again much like how lasers sweep across targets currently.

I imagine they'd end up more or less following the mech though, and ergo chain-hitting either the facing arm, or the facing side rear, or full rear, torsos. That's still only three components, and it potentially allows hitting the (typically vulnerable) rear torso from a side-on aspect, which I'm not sure would be ideal. I mean, would a guided 'cluster' of missiles break the concept?

[blinkin]

Gaan Cathal, on 04 February 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

I imagine they'd end up more or less following the mech though, and ergo chain-hitting either the facing arm, or the facing side rear, or full rear, torsos. That's still only three components, and it potentially allows hitting the (typically vulnerable) rear torso from a side-on aspect, which I'm not sure would be ideal. I mean, would a guided 'cluster' of missiles break the concept?

it would not be entirely exclusive. i guess i was trying to add precision so skilled pilots would have something to take advantage of. i was trying to make the scatter related to pilot skill. also in my version light/fast mechs would have to work much harder to use them (one of my primary goals).

i think the core concept would survive the change.

Edited by blinkin, 04 February 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[Nailgunn]

These ideas are good but I feel the biggest issue is in their flight characteristics. Streaks should have a trajectory similar to LRM. They should not turn as sharply as they do. A missile should not track - circle me in a tight radius. My mech running 140 + kph has a set turning radius. A missile running 200 kph should have a larger turning radius than the mech I am piloting. I know we have all seen the ssrm circling a mech... give me a break that is not even close to viable. Using fins/vains for steering would not allow that. Even vector thrust could not do that. If a missile tried to turn like that it would tumble. I would also like to see a set flight time and range. All missiles have a set amount of fuel. Calculate how long a missile travels 270 meters in milliseconds and then also limit flight time to that. This could also be applied to LRM.....Just my thoughts

Edited by Nailgunn, 04 February 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Fut]

blinkin, on 04 February 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

the point was that they kept following the reticle until they hit, so subsequent missiles might be directed to a different component or miss entirely. again much like how lasers sweep across targets currently.

Again, how would the missiles know which target you're trying to chase down with your crosshairs?

Example:

You're standing still and a smaller 'Mech is circling you in a clockwise motion. When you see the opponent come into view from the left of your screen, you begin to track them with your crosshair. As you begin to fire, the quick moving 'Mech gets in front of your crosshairs... meaning you've got to catch up and your crosshair is currently "targeting" random **** in the background. Now will the missiles continue after the 'Mech off to the right, or will they continue to track to your crosshairs - which might be "targeting" a hill or tree 200m+ beyond where your opponent actually is?

Edited by Fut, 04 February 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[blinkin]

Fut, on 04 February 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Again, how would the missiles know which target you're trying to chase down with your crosshairs?

Example:

You're standing still and a smaller 'Mech is circling you in a clockwise motion. When you see the opponent come into view from the left of your screen, you begin to track them with your crosshair. As you begin to fire, the quick moving 'Mech gets in front of your crosshairs... meaning you've got to catch up and your crosshair is currently "targeting" random **** in the background. Now will the missiles continue after the 'Mech off to the right, or will they continue to track to your crosshairs - which might be "targeting" a hill or tree 200m+ beyond where your opponent actually is?

i would say they should go wherever your reticle is pointed, if that happens to be a hillside then a hillside is what the missiles will go after.

[hercules1981]

U know it would b really interesting if pgi split up missile hard points into 2 types,guided and dumb fire, med. ranged missiles will b in the game soon and as far as I remember they where a dumb fire like Srms just longer range so at that point u would have 2 missile types for each type of hard point and it would really split up mech versions a lot more. Anyways I kinda like the rework of the ssrms, i really dont think it will work well as may have mentioned anout the missiles going off in the distance or hitting another mech but if they could implement some way of making this weapon a bit harder to use it would def. make for a little more Skill thus putting more skill back into the light mech class, which I think is lacking right now due to the circling another light mech and streaking the hell out of him till the other goes down, I really think i could get my 5 year old nephew to do that. I guess u could give them a little longer flight distance and have a .5 second delay b4 it tracks another object, if the Aimer moves off target a bit it will still track for that short time giving u hopefully enough time to get back on target. Mayb that would work what do I know.

Edited by hercules1981, 07 February 2013 - 06:25 PM.