28 replies to this topic

[Dawnstealer]

So I mentioned this in a couple other threads. While it makes sense to quirk IS mechs in such things as internal structure or agility, why not add a ton of flavor and make weapon quirks...related to the actual weapons.

The table below is just for Small Lasers and as an example of what you could do. This was a fast first pass, but it still only took me about thirty minutes. It would not be hard to implement this for every weapon type.

[Of course the table didn't work, so here's the link to the Google Sheet:

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

]

For simplicity's sake, the percentages are all "a positive # is a positive quirk," so Heat of 5% means that the weapon generates 5% less heat, and a Cooldown of -5% means that it takes 5% longer to cool down.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 31 December 2015 - 10:44 AM.

[adamts01]

Because PGI can't even balance the weapons they have.

[Deathlike]

Let me say this again... under what circumstances would a Spider-5V be good when it has zero quirks?

Some mechs will need quirks regardless due to poor geometry, hitboxes, hardpoints, and a host of those deficiencies.

[Ronan]

Deathlike, on 31 December 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Let me say this again... under what circumstances would a Spider-5V be good when it has zero quirks?

Some mechs will need quirks regardless due to poor geometry, hitboxes, hardpoints, and a host of those deficiencies.

And "good" mechs will get loaded up with the "good" quirked weapons and ... that just gets ugly.

[Gamuray]

I'll tell you why mech quirks are better than weapon quirks IF said weapons are available to all mechs.

1. Because quirks are not just for flavor, they mainly to balance poor mechs with the good ones.
2. Because it's actually easier. Less deviations in equipment and a smaller catalog of items.
3. Because it won't do much for balance at all. People will only choose the top rated weapons and never use the lower rated weapons.

[Barantor]

Quirk specific slots in mechs and it gets a lot better too. When a mech quirk says 'medium laser +1000' then you know that everyone is going to put all the medium lasers they can on it. If it said it only worked on that really low energy point on the arm.. it creates a little more balance.

But hey, folks have been saying stuff like this forever....

[Tyler Valentine]

Deathlike, on 31 December 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Let me say this again... under what circumstances would a Spider-5V be good when it has zero quirks?

Some mechs will need quirks regardless due to poor geometry, hitboxes, hardpoints, and a host of those deficiencies.

Ronan, on 31 December 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

And "good" mechs will get loaded up with the "good" quirked weapons and ... that just gets ugly.

Fair points, would be really cool if this could be implemented though. If we had legit IW then the crappier 'mechs could get scouting and stealth buffs and the 'better' chassis could focus on dealing damage but be at a disadvantage when it came to sensors... I really feel like they were on to something with their IW attempt but it needed more work.

Oh well, it's PGI so doing any of this is kinda rhetorical, it would take like 40 years.

[Khobai]

last thing we need is variations of weapons. they cant even balance the weapons they have now.

also the main purpose of quirks should be to differentiate similar mechs and in some cases balance underpowered mechs. quirks shouldnt be used for core weapon balance though.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Deathlike, on 31 December 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Let me say this again... under what circumstances would a Spider-5V be good when it has zero quirks?

Right... when would an anti infantry mech be good vs mechs... um never and its not supposed to be because its meant to be fighting infantry lol

I dont even see the 5v variant on sarna, though it does have the anasazi now

IE

• SDR-5D The 5D Spider is one of two official variants originally developed by Newhart. Geared towards anti-infantry work, it removes one of the medium lasers and replaces it with a single Flamer in the right arm. It was introduced in 2853 and, after the Star League fell, was primarily used by the Federated Suns. The variant was normally used by militia units since others saw its mission of hunting infantry a waste of a good 'Mech.^[4][1][2] BV (1.0) = 412, BV (2.0) = 524
  
• SDR-5K The 5K Spider is one of two official variants originally developed by Newhart. Also geared towards anti-infantry work, it removes one of the medium lasers and replaces it with two arm mounted Machine Guns fed by one ton of ammo stored in the center torso. To make room for its machine gun ammunition the 'Mech sacrifices 60 meters of its jump capability by removing two jump jets. First introduced in 2850 it was primarily used by the Draconis Combine during the Succession Wars. The variant was normally used by militia units since others saw its mission of hunting infantry a waste of a good 'Mech.^[6][1][2] BV (1.0) = 433, BV (2.0) = 503^[7]

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 31 December 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[Khobai]

spider 5V would be kindve fun if we had vectored jumpjets though.

the main reason the 5V is bad is because its whole thing is jumpjets... and jumpjets suck and usually just make you easier to kill. but if we had vectored thrust and the 5V could dodge shots in midair it would be pretty awesome lol.

Edited by Khobai, 31 December 2015 - 01:46 PM.

[Deathlike]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 31 December 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

Right... when would an anti infantry mech be good vs mechs... um never and its not supposed to be because its meant to be fighting infantry lol

I dont even see the 5v variant on sarna, though it does have the anasazi now

IE

• SDR-5D The 5D Spider is one of two official variants originally developed by Newhart. Geared towards anti-infantry work, it removes one of the medium lasers and replaces it with a single Flamer in the right arm. It was introduced in 2853 and, after the Star League fell, was primarily used by the Federated Suns. The variant was normally used by militia units since others saw its mission of hunting infantry a waste of a good 'Mech.^[4][1][2] BV (1.0) = 412, BV (2.0) = 524
  
• SDR-5K The 5K Spider is one of two official variants originally developed by Newhart. Also geared towards anti-infantry work, it removes one of the medium lasers and replaces it with two arm mounted Machine Guns fed by one ton of ammo stored in the center torso. To make room for its machine gun ammunition the 'Mech sacrifices 60 meters of its jump capability by removing two jump jets. First introduced in 2850 it was primarily used by the Draconis Combine during the Succession Wars. The variant was normally used by militia units since others saw its mission of hunting infantry a waste of a good 'Mech.^[6][1][2] BV (1.0) = 433, BV (2.0) = 503^[7]

It's the primary variant.

No really, I'm serious.

[BigBenn]

I think PGI should pay more attention to weapons used in the stock variants and quick the heck out of them. Set a base for each weapon and allow for the mods. Each variant should get some serious quirks based on the stock variant's load out.

The Quick Draw "IV-FOUR" is a perfect example. No sense in deviating from the stock variant too far since the quirks (and mods) make that thing an amazing platform.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Deathlike, on 31 December 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

It's the primary variant.

No really, I'm serious.

lol my bad, I just didnt see the designation

[kapusta11]

Deathlike, on 31 December 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Let me say this again... under what circumstances would a Spider-5V be good when it has zero quirks?

Some mechs will need quirks regardless due to poor geometry, hitboxes, hardpoints, and a host of those deficiencies.

You can scale down oversized mechs and inflate hardpoints on those that need more firepower.

[Pjwned]

Deathlike, on 31 December 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Let me say this again... under what circumstances would a Spider-5V be good when it has zero quirks?

Some mechs will need quirks regardless due to poor geometry, hitboxes, hardpoints, and a host of those deficiencies.

Mechs like the SDR-5V would be better if they had some options for ballistic weapons that weren't either complete garbage or way too heavy to carry, and same goes for other mechs like any Kintaro variant and missile weapons.

Not to say that other issues like geometry don't matter, but there are a number of mechs that get screwed because their hardpoints should be good but are actually not because their weapon choices are abysmal.

[Deathlike]

kapusta11, on 01 January 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

You can scale down oversized mechs and inflate hardpoints on those that need more firepower.

If scaling was done right in the first place, we wouldn't be talking about oversized Trebuchets, Quickdraws, Gargoyles... Novas... the list goes on.

[Khobai]

Quote

Mechs like the SDR-5V would be better if they had some options for ballistic weapons that weren't either complete garbage or way too heavy to carry, and same goes for other mechs like any Kintaro variant and missile weapons.

Yeah we need mech rifles added to the game. So theres a lightweight ballistic with semi-decent range.

[Cementi]

Interesting. The problem I see with this is that PGI has borked the heat scale so badly the only manufactures anyone would look at would be the ones that generate less heat.

What I have seen proposed before and I continue to endorse now and then is that they make three manufactures for each weapon:

Variant 1: Bonus Cbills
Variant 2: Bonus MXP
Variant 3: Bonus GXP

Sell them for MC. None of them are pay to win, simply pay for conveniance. PGI needs to start monetizing something other than mechs. Mechs are cool and fun and all but at this point I and many like me simply have so many mechbays from buying packs that it does not make sense to purchase more. Just need to be a little patient and wait. On top of this mechs will (in some cases are) become redundant. Simply another visual skin with basicly the same hardpoints as another chassis unless they continue hardpoint inflation which makes more power creep and is bad for game balance.

I mean I really want an archer, have since I started playing but honestly 9 missle hardpoints. That thing is going to be terrifying if it gets proper support.

Another thing that could be tapped would be different weapon models. Again for MC and again I cannot take credit for the idea. I am sure there are plenty of people out there that would pay to have a weapon look different than the current models.

So there are my thoughts. Really wish I could give thanks to the right people for those ideas but I did not think to write them down or anything when I saw them.

[Chuck Jager]

BigBenn, on 31 December 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

I think PGI should pay more attention to weapons used in the stock variants and quick the heck out of them. Set a base for each weapon and allow for the mods. Each variant should get some serious quirks based on the stock variant's load out.

The Quick Draw "IV-FOUR" is a perfect example. No sense in deviating from the stock variant too far since the quirks (and mods) make that thing an amazing platform.

Stock mechs are for looking at not playing. They are so far removed from this game's most basic meta it is not even funny especially with ammo, engine size, armor and number of jumpjets.

Maybe not polite, but it is the truth.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Khobai, on 01 January 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

Yeah we need mech rifles added to the game. So theres a lightweight ballistic with semi-decent range.

Don't the light ones basically bounce off mechs?