24 replies to this topic

[Desphiria]

Hello. I just started playing the game yesterday and I was wondering, what would be a good ranged support mech for a beginner? Some people said the Atlas but I was wondering if there were more that people could suggest. Also, what's an LRM Boat? I saw that twice today. Does that mean a mech with just LRMs or something?

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Desphiria, on 17 February 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

Hello. I just started playing the game yesterday and I was wondering, what would be a good ranged support mech for a beginner? Some people said the Atlas but I was wondering if there were more that people could suggest. Also, what's an LRM Boat? I saw that twice today. Does that mean a mech with just LRMs or something?

Welcome!

First, to your last question. An "LRM boat" is a mech that "boats" LRMs, so yeah, basically a mostly- or all-LRM mech. CPLT-A1 is a prime example. PURE boating is generally a bad idea, but boating with backup weapons (a CPLT-Cx with a couple MLs, for example) can be done well.

Now, to the former point. There are a TON of good 'ranged support' mechs in MWO. I recommend that you do not start off trying to be all SNIPER EXXXTREME or GOD-O-LURMS. Why? You won't learn to fight up-close, and that's a skill that you're going to need.

Whoever told you that an Atlas is a good RANGED SUPPORT mech, they were trolling you. It CAN be done, but the Atlas is a poor choice for it. Stalker for IS assault, Warhawk for Clan assault, Jagermech for IS heavy, Ebon Jaguar for Clan heavy. In the medium weight class, I'd personally recommend the Shadow Cat for ranged stuff (the Storm Crow's awesomeness is kinda wasted on LRMs or sniping, IMO, though it can do both better than many other mechs) in the Clan medium category. For IS mediums to do ranged? OMG, do you have choices! Blackjack is a GOD of sniping among mediums (BJ-1DC for Gauss, BJ-1/-1(C) for AC/2s, BJ-3 for PPCs). Shadow Hawk or Hunchback will do for high torso mounts for ballistic sniping weapons. HBK-4J is THE LRM-10 mech. Some Cicadas can do ranged ballistic or energy weapons reasonably well. Trebuchet USED TO BE a pretty vicious LRM mech, but that's debatable now (and its enormous size and wonky hitboxes and generally weak quirks make it a pretty weak choice).

The recent cash-only (for now) heavies can be good for long-range stuff. Marauder is alright, and the Rifleman looks to be REALLY good at it.

Jagermech or Stalker, though, give you the best options for specifically long-range builds. Battlemaster is also pretty good. Warhawk on the Clan side for an assault, and again, Ebon Jaguar for Clan heavy (the TBR is also REALLY strong, but better suited to mid-range or short-range, IMO).

NOW, as to a new player asking about playing long-range builds, this inevitably leads nowhere good. No offense. Not calling you anything, trying to be a hardass, etc. But picking up a type of build that keeps you out of the midst of the fighting? That's going to hurt your development as a player, and BADLY so at that. Ask me how I KNOW this (after well over three years, I'm in the scrub end of the middle tier, and that's probably generous most days). Please, do yourself a BIG favor, and commit to at least ALSO running a mid-range build or brawler, and learning those skills as well. Maybe, in addition to whatever sniper or LRM boat you start learning, you could get into the Centurion and learn to brawl with an AC/10 and some SRM-4s. FORCE yourself to learn to torso twist, to time your twists to your weapons' cooldowns, to spread damage, to shield with your dead side (if/when you have one, and you always will in the CN9), and so on. Learn to keep your cool while taking fire. Learn when to stand your ground against the Atlases, and when to run screaming away from Locusts. Learn to discipline yourself to hold fire until you're within range. AND SO ON. Get good at that. Even if you eventually decide you hate doing that, be good at it anyway, so when you DO eventually get jumped in your sniper roost (if you can get there, so can someone else's Arctic Cheetah) you can hold your own.

And again, in case I forgot to mention it, WELCOME!

TL;DR- Jagermechs or Stalkers for now. Get good at brawling, too. Welcome aboard.

[DrRedCoat]

Rabbi hits most of it. Do yourself a favor and don't start with an Atlas. Support means a lot of different things but I think the mech that will let you try out a lot of roles under the umbrella of "support" would be a Centurion. Mediums are good support mechs because almost all of them excel by supporting someone bigger. With the Centurion, you can be a support brawler which will teach you a lot of important skills for this game like twisting and not running out alone. You can then evolve your build from there to try other support roles like ranged support (gauss, PPC, or LRMs). Granted it can do all of these okay but usually some other mech can do them better. However, the Centurion would be a great way to find out which exact role you like best and then you can go from there.

[IraqiWalker]

Sister Rabbi nailed every nail on the head.

My recommended ranged support mechs in each weight class:
(this is a basic list, and by no stretch inclusive of all support mechs, just some solid performers)

Lights:

Inner Sphere:
RVN-3L (with 2 ERLLs), Panthers with LLs,and ERLLs, and COM-3A with 2xLLs.

Clan
Adder and Kitfox, (no variants are listed, because both are omni mechs, they can swap parts to have any hardpoints they want.), both using ERLLs, or ERPPCs, plus, the KFX can mount 3 AMS, and ECM, it basically is a walking nightmare for any LRM mech on the field.


Mediums:
(possibly the most versatile class, and can be the most effective for long range support)

Inner Sphere:
Shadowhawks (all of them).
HBK-4J with 2 LRM 10s, and HBK-GI with Gauss Rifle.
Cicadas with energy mounts, and specifically the 3M, since it can give the team ECM plus ERLLs.
All the Blackjacks can be amazing support mechs, either with AC 2s, or 5s, or large lasers for the -1X variant.
Vindicator AA is a solid one as well.
All Trebuchets with a mix of large lasers, and LRMs. Finally, you have the Kintaro-18 with 5 LRM 6s.

Clan:

Stormcrow can do anything, and Novas can poptart ERPPCs.

The Shadowcat can be a decent support mech with ERLLs, or even Gauss.

I haven't had much interaction with them yet to make a final verdict, but HBK-IICs seem decent with good high mounts.

Heavies:

Inner Sphere:

Quickdraws, with big lasers.

Rifleman is basically an up tonned Blackjack, so everything that goes for the BJ-1 goes for the RFL.

Catapults are great with LRMs, but their arms traditionally have huge hitboxes (they should be getting re-scaled soon)

Jagermechs are up-tonned Riflemans. They just tend to have fewer energy hardpoints, and more ballistic hardpoints (you can thank Davion having an autocannon fetish).

The Grasshopper can do it, but it's mediocre at it, I'd recommend using GHRs as flankers, and front-liners instead.

Orions can do it rather well, surprisingly. The VA tends to be great with LRMs, and LLs

Clan:

Mad dog is the iconic fire support mech for the heavy weight class, and it's a clan mech. It's got LRMs aplenty, and can dish out good energy, or ballistic damage at range rather consistently.

Ebonjaguars can do it rather well, but they're honestly significantly better at other roles.

Same with Timberwolves (technically, the Timberwolf can do every role, to the point where it's a waste to use them as a purely support mech with mediocre damage that's only reliable at long range.)

Assaults:

Inner Sphere:

Awesomes are solid LRM, ERLL, and ERPPC mechs. They can dish out solid damage at long range.

BLR-1S with LRMs is very good (but if you're running a LRM assault, you might as well be using an Awesome, or Stalker)

Stalkers with either ERLLs, LLs, PPCs, ERPPCs, or LRMs. they are one chassis that performs reliably at short range, or long range.

Maulers are also capable fire support mechs with literally any weapon system you have in the game.

Banshee has a couple variants that can be very solid support mechs with either Ballistics, or Lasers.

(A LRM Atlas is usable, but it's honestly a waste of potential for that mech, in my opinion, and I say this knowing some of the best Atlas pilots in the game who can pull off great performance with that build.)

King Crab: Pack Gauss + ERLLs, or PPCs, or ERPPCs, or even a 4xUAC5 (or 6 AC 2) build for long range death, destruction, and suppression respectively. One variant can even pull off LRM boating rather well (I don't recommend doing that, but it's rather doable).

Clan:

Warhawk: It's iconic set up with 4 ERPPCs screams long range shots to the face. It can also pack LRMs in spades.

Direwolf: Focus on ballistic boating, or Laser boating (or in the case of my DWF-Prime 2 Gauss + too many lasers for long range meltage).

[S 0 L E N Y A]

You COULD build an Atlas S into a decent LRM support mech, but as mentioned there are better mechs for that role and arguably better roles for the Atlas.

Ive had reasonable success on the Atlas S with 4x LRM10s and 4x MLs, Prepare for major hate from your team if you show up with that.

[Ollorin]

My go to support build is a medium mech with LRM10 x2 & ML x4. My mechs of choice for this build in order would be HBK-4J, TBT-3C, GRF-1S, CN9-AL. I run XL255/275 engines in each. The only other variation between them is that the Trebuchet uses LRM15's.

Try to stick with your assaults, just hang out a bit behind them. Prioritizing enemy assaults will help soften them up for your teams heavies and assaults. Learn to use terrain to your advantage, keeping just out of sight but close enough that your missiles don't have too long of travel time. Generally I try not to engage anything over 700m but idealy you want to be firing at enemies 300-500m out. Also don't be afraid to mix it up with the med lasers when no one is looking your way. They aren't there for show. And once the LRMs are all spent put those MLs to work and switch into vulture mode, picking off nearly dead enemies.

I usually end up doing around 450-500 damage and racking up 1-2 kills per match. 900+ damage matches aren't too unusual.

[Arianrhod]

Dropping in an Atlas with an LRM-based loadout is simply a bad idea. Primarily because the Atlas's tonnage is wasted on the inefficiency (in terms of weight for damage, and missiles per second) of LRM20s, but also because the Atlas physically lacks sufficient missile tubes to launch all those missiles effectively, and because the Atlas is incredibly slow, so bringing mostly LRMs leaves you greatly at risk to more seasoned enemy players in faster mechs.

Direct fire support is probably the most useful role for a new player. Direct fire support is the art of standing next to assault mechs and letting them take fire for you whilst you push out damage at the enemy team; this establishes a symbiotic relationship between you and the assault mech, wherein you are both more likely to survive. It will also probably draw you into brawls, which is a necessary thing in teaching you to spread damage and to aim whilst in motion. Using this approach will make you more valuable to the team.

Medium mechs are probably the best mechs for beginners. They offer you some speed and maneuverability, force you to learn positioning and damage spreading, but also have enough armor to prevent you from being instantly killed by one mistake. I saw someone mention the Centurion above; I'd second that motion. I would also like to HEAVILY recommend the Hunchback, which is the pretty well-established best mech for new players, both as a teaching tool for brawling and damage spreading and because its balanced design helps you enjoy the game and contribute to the team more quickly. Seriously—when I was a new player, I tried to play as an LRM mech, too, but what they don't tell you is that using LRMs actually requires skill. And so I wish that someone had pointed me to the Hunchback sooner.

On that note, the Hunchback can, as everyone's noted, use LRMs—part of its greatness as a starter is its adaptability; it has a variant for everything: SRM brawler, ballistic brawler/fire support, LRM support, and laser vomit.

Good luck; there are some fantastic responses on this thread and I think you'd do well to follow them.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Arianrhod, on 18 February 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Dropping in an Atlas with an LRM-based loadout is simply a bad idea. Primarily because the Atlas's tonnage is wasted on the inefficiency (in terms of weight for damage, and missiles per second) of LRM20s, but also because the Atlas physically lacks sufficient missile tubes to launch all those missiles effectively, and because the Atlas is incredibly slow, so bringing mostly LRMs leaves you greatly at risk to more seasoned enemy players in faster mechs.

I dont exactly disagree, but who said anything about LRM 20s?

But I heavily agree about the lack of speed and mobility being a real issue. When you are a puking missiles your location is not exactly a secret to the enemy. On the offensive end, the problem is that you may not be in the best location to rain down LRMs on the enemy. If you are in a mech that barely breaks into the the low 50kph at full flanking speed, then this means you.


On the flip side, with some assaults, you can run mixed purpose builds, which totally violate meta concepts, but if run correctly can be very effective. However, due to hardpoints, the Atlas is usually not a good candidate for this.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Yeah, Atlas is best used for the in-your-face brawling. Too easy to isolate components at range, and the doggone thing is SLOW even with THE max engine. It's really best used with AC/20 and SRMs to just tank enemies up close. You CAN put ranged weapons on it, like LRMs, Gauss, ERLLs, or ERPPCs, but it's not really playing to the mech's strengths. And there are other assault mechs that can boat those long-range weapons better (higher quantity, better quirks, better hard point location, and so on). Stalker and Mauler are great examples.

There's a reason for all the LRM-Atlas hate out there.

But you do you. Let us bathe in our own lake of salt and flame.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Sister RAbbi, on 18 February 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

You CAN put ranged weapons on it, like LRMs, Gauss, ERLLs, or ERPPCs,

Ewwww, Gauss on an Atlas is especially the suck. I think my 2nd mech purchase ever was an Atlas AS7-K with the gauss rifle. Damn near useless considering it sits so low on your hip.

[IraqiWalker]

Boogie138, on 18 February 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:

Ewwww, Gauss on an Atlas is especially the suck. I think my 2nd mech purchase ever was an Atlas AS7-K with the gauss rifle. Damn near useless considering it sits so low on your hip.

An literally everyone and their blind grandma knows to take out that ballistic side torso early.

[Leone]

Awesome stuff so far, but seriously... no one? ... Okay, let me.

"It's dangerous to go alone. Take this."
Honestly, find out what weaponry you like. Try the trials. Then, slap a build together, come back, post it, and we'll discuss it's various merits an demerits. You first mech'll break your bank. It's an important purchase, so it's worth taking the time to have the right chassis from the get go.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 19 February 2016 - 12:20 AM.

[Spheroid]

Seeing as you just started you should buy a Hunchback-4J as it is the cheapest viable fire support in the game. It also has a decent number of energy hardpoints to defend with once the ammo runs dry.

Edited by Spheroid, 19 February 2016 - 12:24 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Spheroid, on 19 February 2016 - 12:23 AM, said:

Seeing as you just started you should buy a Hunchback-4J as it is the cheapest viable fire support in the game. Also has a decent number of energy hardpoints to defend with once the ammo runs dry.

Plus, every single Hunchback variant is a viable mech.

[Rogue Jedi]

IraqiWalker, on 19 February 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

Plus, every single Hunchback variant is a viable mech.

but they will want a few upgrades, Double Heat Sinks, Endo Steel and a bigger engine (Standard250 or Standard275), the first will cost about 8 million including upgrades, later varients about 6 million as you can swap the engine

[Spheroid]

@Rogue. I agree in general, but two of my Hunchbacks still run stock engines in my builds for the 4J and 4G. If you are hanging back or bodyguarding you really don't need more speed. The five ton difference gets you a lot of ammo or equipment.

My Hunchbacks usually got the hand me downs that were pulled out of other mechs. Surplus 255, 260 and 275 STDs. Just starting out only the endo and heatsinks are the mandatory upgrades.

[Desphiria]

So, if I buy the Hunchback 4J do I have to make a build for it immediately or can I use the normal default one? Does it have a default build when you first purchase it? Cause, I'm not sure how to build it. Do I use smurfly and just put anything? Or make it balanced somehow?

Edited by Desphiria, 19 February 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

It will come with the default load out that is listed for it in the store. Use it like that until you get a feel for it and earn some additional C-bills and then tailor it to suit your play style.

2 LRM 10
5 Medium lasers
1 Small laser

Edited by Rampage, 19 February 2016 - 03:26 PM.

[jss78]

Desphiria, on 19 February 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

So, if I buy the Hunchback 4J do I have to make a build for it immediately or can I use the normal default one? Does it have a default build when you first purchase it? Cause, I'm not sure how to build it. Do I use smurfly and just put anything? Or make it balanced somehow?

The default build IMO is "almost" good as-is. Two things it's sorely lacking are heat management and ammo for the LRMs. I'd consider something like this a minimal modification to do on the stock one. It adds double heat sinks (for better heat management), lots more LRM ammo, and also adds the BAP which is supremely useful on any LRM mech.

[Darwins Dog]

Desphiria, on 19 February 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

So, if I buy the Hunchback 4J do I have to make a build for it immediately or can I use the normal default one? Does it have a default build when you first purchase it? Cause, I'm not sure how to build it. Do I use smurfly and just put anything? Or make it balanced somehow?

I usually add 1.5 million to the cost of every mech to buy double heatsinks (unless it comes with them). That should be the first upgrade for any mech (with very few exceptions). Other than that it will run pretty good with the default loadout. You'll want to make other upgrades as you get the cash. Feel free to post smurfy links here for feedback.