40 replies to this topic

[Kaeb Odellas]

Or is it only a measure of how much stuff it can hold? I ask this because if it's the former, Battlemechs are just way too big for their actual mass. An Atlas's entire internal structure, actuators, myomers, and electrical system would only weigh 5 tons with ES. That's less than the weight of an up-armored Humvee. That's kind of silly!

[Y E O N N E]

I like to think of it as payload, but I don't have the answer.

[Scout Derek]

Kaeb Odellas, on 29 February 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

Or is it only a measure of how much stuff it can hold? I ask this because if it's the former, Battlemechs are just way too big for their actual mass. An Atlas's entire internal structure, actuators, myomers, and electrical system would only weigh 5 tons with ES. That's less than the weight of an up-armored Humvee. That's kind of silly!

Like Yeonne, I'm not too sure, I'm guessing how much stuff it can hold moreover.

[Afuldan McKronik]

The structure weight of a 'mech is most of it. In TT, gyros, sensors, cockpit all have a weight. MWO doesnt, so think of the structure as the weight you are wondering about. ES is made in a zero g environment with materials we have only dreampt about.

[Triordinant]

You do realize that BattleTech science fiction is more fiction than science...

[Y E O N N E]

Triordinant, on 29 February 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

You do realize that BattleTech science fiction is more fiction than science...

And?

It would be 100x cooler if it were re-imagined from the ground up, incorporating knowledge from today into its fabric.

[pyrocomp]

Triordinant, on 29 February 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

You do realize that BattleTech science fiction is more fiction than science...

However it does not necessarily mean it should ignore common sense at all. So better to think of those weights as of available payload (plys-minus some wiring and etc), hurts less.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Triordinant, on 29 February 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

You do realize that BattleTech science fiction is more fiction than science...

Mass also not equal to weight. Sure the structure is massive, but not heavy.

Yeonne Greene, on 29 February 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

And?

It would be 100x cooler if it were re-imagined from the ground up, incorporating knowledge from today into its fabric.

If it were realistic like you propose, the locust would probably be 50+ tons, moving 20 kph on treads.

[Y E O N N E]

Afuldan McKronik, on 29 February 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

If it were realistic like you propose, the locust would probably be 50+ tons, moving 20 kph on treads.

Better grounded != full-on realistic.

[Metus regem]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 February 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

And?

It would be 100x cooler if it were re-imagined from the ground up, incorporating knowledge from today into its fabric.

I've been dabbling with a document along those lines to sent to CGL, and see if they will bite... a couple of major core changes from lessons learned here in MWO, to help bring the Clans and IS to a closer standing than what they used to be in TT (and happen to be a regarded as a mistake by one of the founders of BT...)

[Xavori]

Kaeb Odellas, on 29 February 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

Or is it only a measure of how much stuff it can hold? I ask this because if it's the former, Battlemechs are just way too big for their actual mass. An Atlas's entire internal structure, actuators, myomers, and electrical system would only weigh 5 tons with ES. That's less than the weight of an up-armored Humvee. That's kind of silly!

Dude, the Atlas is 16m tall vs. a Humvee at less than 5m long and an M1A1 main battle tank is less than 10m long. The Atlas is freaking huge. Then you start piling on armor, all the internals, and the magic that lets ammo stored in the feet get carried seamlessly and loaded into torso or hand mounted guns. That's all got a lot of weight to it.

Anyway, the tonnage listed is the max amount of junk you can pile onto the mech before it's leg actuators can no longer move the mech and/or the gyro can't keep it balanced and upright.

And maybe someday knockdowns will come back to MWO and maybe even damage to gyros turning your mech into a drunken fool as it stumbles around the battlefield.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Knock downs by blowing off legs... no targetting abilities if sensors knocked out... pilot death timer if life support is knocked out in a non hospitable zone.

While we are at it. Inferno SRM and slug LBX rounds, please.

[Soldier91]

No. A mech weights 3 or 3.5 tons if you have endo steel. Otherwise the base build weight is about 5.
Inner sphere mechs of mine, 3.5 for endo. 5 standard. When I sold my wolverines one weighed in at 3 even though it was 3.5 earlier I can't explain that[notice and sold anyway for what its worth, half a ton is worth it's weight in gold to me].

Edited by Soldier91, 29 February 2016 - 03:02 PM.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Lighter mechs have lighter structure, do they not?

[Kaeb Odellas]

Afuldan McKronik, on 29 February 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Mass also not equal to weight. Sure the structure is massive, but not heavy.

You're probably thinking of volume. Weight is a function of the gravitational force between an object and the planet it's on, which is in turn a function of the two objects' masses and the distance between them. For our purposes, mass is equal to weight.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Xavori, on 29 February 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Dude, the Atlas is 16m tall vs. a Humvee at less than 5m long and an M1A1 main battle tank is less than 10m long. The Atlas is freaking huge. Then you start piling on armor, all the internals, and the magic that lets ammo stored in the feet get carried seamlessly and loaded into torso or hand mounted guns. That's all got a lot of weight to it.

Anyway, the tonnage listed is the max amount of junk you can pile onto the mech before it's leg actuators can no longer move the mech and/or the gyro can't keep it balanced and upright.

And maybe someday knockdowns will come back to MWO and maybe even damage to gyros turning your mech into a drunken fool as it stumbles around the battlefield.

An M1 Abrams also weighs 60 tons. It's definitely not 60% the size of an Atlas.

I'm actually curious about the actuator/gyro thing. There's no reason the actuators and gyro should automatically fail past a mech's "max" tonnage. If so, a mech wouldn't be able to pick anything up with its hands.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Mm right. Been a while since I thought about it. Also so used to everyone saying weight class. Not mass class.

[Idealsuspect]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 February 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

And?

It would be 100x cooler if it were re-imagined from the ground up, incorporating knowledge from today into its fabric.

An atlas should weight like 350tonns in this case ...
Look a abrams weight 70 tonns and its same size than a jenner' main structure without leggs.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Afuldan McKronik, on 29 February 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

The structure weight of a 'mech is most of it. In TT, gyros, sensors, cockpit all have a weight. MWO doesnt, so think of the structure as the weight you are wondering about. ES is made in a zero g environment with materials we have only dreampt about.

As I understand it, the gyro, cockpit, and sensors are included in the engine weight in MWO. Still, it's ludicrous that all of an Atlas's bones, joints, and myomers would only weigh 5 or 10 tons.

[Afuldan McKronik]

Its a size of gyro and supporting structure thing. It can pick it up, if it isnt obscenely massive. Tree/car/pilot, not bad, the pilot and gyro can compensate. But an atlas picking up a flea would over tax the system. If it had an extra heavy/large gyro, maybe.

It just throws the gyro out too far. Stick a piece of gum on a top and spin it.