63 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple question. Why is PGI so adamant against a simple skill tree, rather than this maze-like circuit of low level hexes? They've fixed the refund process, mostly. Engine-agility decoupling seems fine now. They even buffed the blast door damage reduction but THIS? Why is THIS still a problem?

Edited by cazidin, 28 April 2017 - 02:46 PM.

[Trenchbird]

That's a really good question that I don't think anyone has a legitimate answer to beyond someone throwing a hissy fit when other suggestions are given, or when the topic is even brought up.

[cazidin]

Back to the topic at hand, gentlemen.

WHY do they simply refuse to implement this one change that would not only make this system simpler, more streamlined and easier for them, but also make the playerbase happy?

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Simple answer is PGI already sunk roughly a year's worth of people's paychecks and PGI's operating costs into making this skill tree and want to have it go live or lose all that money in axing it. Hopefully this is a first iteration and next year or in two years we get a revised one that is more... sane. It needs streamlining which can be done post launch, but, the longer they hold off launching the more resources lost.

[Shifty McSwift]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 28 April 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

Simple answer is PGI already sunk roughly a year's worth of people's paychecks and PGI's operating costs into making this skill tree and want to have it go live or lose all that money in axing it. Hopefully this is a first iteration and next year or in two years we get a revised one that is more... sane. It needs streamlining which can be done post launch, but, the longer they hold off launching the more resources lost.

Could be, I am inclined to think that definitely plays a big role in it.

[BlueFlames]

cazidin, on 28 April 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Why is THIS still a problem?

If I had to guess, I'd say pride. The community pushed back on infotech and energy draw, and Paul and Russ don't want to have to chalk up a third failure to alter a major gameplay system.

[Deltree Zero]

Heres to the topic at hand:

If you think PGI has plans to make the player base happy with its incredible game design decisions, you need to have your f*****g head examined.

PGI has gone 100% troll. This $kill tree still punishes the idea of customization with respec costs, putting a price tag on trying new builds. I dont care what the cost is. Any cost is unacceptable! There is NO valid excuse for this. Since I first heard of $kill tree 2.0 at mechcon, very few people have discussed the respec cost. You sure as hell can't get PGI to talk about it. PGI continues to avoid most questions about....basically anything which they are embarrassed to answer, and ferociously avoids questions about $kill tree respec costs, game balance and many other things.

A 3-4 day PTS wont tell you s*** PGI, you blinding beacon of epic failure. Do you realize your BASE have full-time jobs? Thats how whales pay for your precious mech packs. This whole game has been so infinitely bungled I am consistently surprised at how far down the rabbit hole we can go. Hands effing down the best battletech art ever created, wrapped around a broken, amateurish, complete and utter glaring disaster of a game led by an insulting drunkard who can't face the truth of what a lot of the people who pay $$$$ to fund his life think about his game design choices.

I think PGI wants to hide from the reality of the true health status of MWO. I think that is why you won't see hundreds of peoples tweets to PGI\Russ, you wont hear some extremely valid questions or answers in "town hall" or "roundtable" events, and you won't ever see a positive change made in this game which the MWO community didn't have to fight for and threaten to quit playing the game altogether. I think PGI is afraid of reality. Thats why bombadil and lang are the meatshield for the "town hall" and "roundtable" events which seem to a lot of people to be fully scripted arenas for PGI to answer only the questions they want to answer. Beyond that it devolves into insults from Russ and moving on, or fully ignoring ultra valid questions.

A simple skill tree would make too much sense for PGI. Can you name 3 things PGI has done in the last year which made sense that wasn't begged for and fought for by the players? I can't, and I don't think many others can either. If you can, I bet you had to think about it, didn't you.

You did.

Come on... You did. Its ok. We all know you did. You don't have to admit it aloud.

Have you played incursion? Seriously, does anyone think this is really what Russ has been talking about doing and talking about working on for so long? PGI has failed to bring its loyal base the content they described for YEARS. This is NOT the tactical galaxy dominating thinking-mans game with bonus action we were promised, and it n e v e r will be. What a farce.

$kill tree 2.0 is not simple because: if it was easy to understand what they were actually doing by implementing this garbage, zero people would play this game unless it was to play MWO ironically.

Look at the nerfs to underperforming mechs! Look at the fifty gabillion things to click on! Look at the utterly useless PTS BS which lasts a week if we are lucky! Look at the constant flip-flopping of PGI on so many $kill tree 2.0 details! I think they are desperate to find some way to monetize using a mouse, looking at your PC monitor and breathing in and out while you play! Its broken because it couldn't be anything else, with PGI's zany ideas behind their game design.

I think Russ literally hates his job, hates the players and regrets everything about helping create MWO. I think this is the last push to alienate the last few of us who just cant sit back and take it anymore so he can move on fully to MW5 and then quickly retire.

Fixed the refund process? Are you daft mate? The value of every purchase made in this game fluctuates at the whim of this popcorn fart of a game development studio! They STILL can't figure out what to do with a FOUR YEAR OLD GAME! ITS FOUR F****** YEARS OLD! You think some weird XP is equal to the value of time and effort you have put into buying all those modules?

Dude, come on. This is blaze orange paint fist slap-in-the-face here.

There are SO many other things this game needed before a revamped $kill tree to bleed players for cash and devalue loyal customers investments, digital and fictional or otherwise.

Like so many other PGI ideas: DOA, yet coming soon to what should have been an amazing game near you.

Enjoy, if you will. I won't.

[Excalibaard]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 28 April 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

Simple answer is PGI already sunk roughly a year's worth of people's paychecks and PGI's operating costs into making this skill tree and want to have it go live or lose all that money in axing it. Hopefully this is a first iteration and next year or in two years we get a revised one that is more... sane. It needs streamlining which can be done post launch, but, the longer they hold off launching the more resources lost.

********. Realign the hexes and order all separate skills together. Give it increasing skill point costs or diminishing values to go deep into a tree. (preferably, half the amount of skillpoints to 50 at the most and adjust accordingly) Done.

They were able to combine all weapon trees into 1 overly complex firepower tree in just a few weeks. Don't tell me this is impossible due to money constraints, especially with all those mech packs selling x)

If they desperately want people to 'not get all the cool run nodes' then make the other nodes worthwhile, reduced cockpit shake is way too niche to want in a standard build. Let people CHOOSE, even if 90% of the choices are sometimes the same, it's better than 100% choices being the same because we're forced into taking things that don't benefit our build at all.

Edited by Excalibaard, 28 April 2017 - 04:33 PM.

[CLANBOY FFI]

Quote

Fixed the refund process? Are you daft mate? The value of every purchase made in this game fluctuates at the whim of this popcorn fart of a game development studio! They STILL can't figure out what to do with a FOUR YEAR OLD GAME! ITS FOUR F****** YEARS OLD! You think some weird XP is equal to the value of time and effort you have put into buying all those modules?

NOW I AGREE WITH THIS.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Mole, on 28 April 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

I don't know, Cazidin. Russ has made his personal distaste for his own customers clear on multiple occasions by blatantly stating that he does not value player feedback and spitting comments such as "on and island" and "cheapskates". Let's face it, we are playing a game that is being run by a man who simply does not understand that calling the customer a "cheapskate" is bad for business. The mind of Russ is a complete and total mystery and he seems to operate under his own personally defined rules of logic that differ greatly from the rest of us. Who knows why he steers his company the way he does? It's rare that I see a rhyme or reason behind PGI's behavior and Russ seems hellbent on making sure nobody from inside the company can establish any form of transparency or regular communication with the playerbase.

This right here? This is why, regardless of the outcome of this disaster, I'm going over to HBS for my BTech needs as soon as we get the beta. That team is connected with FASA more meaningfully, more competent at developing good games, and much more responsive to the community.

That's what it really is at the end of the day. If PGI was pushing idiotic systems and changes but actually listened and tried to do stuff that worked, if they were responsive, if they made decisions that had a motive beyond "how will this help sell 'mech packs", I might be more attached to them. But they're predatory, don't give a damn about us, and don't care about anything beyond keeping money flowing. And the forums are full of people who white-knight for them, excusing every moronic decision and backing their greed to the hilt.

[El Bandito]

Players like progression, ever since BF and CoD brought it to FPS genre. PGI is simply delivering that. As for the skill tree being needlessly long and complicated, that could very well be the case. I personally will not have issue with it; at least compared to worsened IS vs. Clan balance post-skill tree, anyway.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Khobai, on 28 April 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

Well if he starts a nuclear war it will solve the skill tree problem at least.

Cockroachs would survive and so would the Skill Maze

[cazidin]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

Players like progression, ever since BF and CoD brought it to FPS genre. PGI is simply delivering that. As for the skill tree being needlessly long and complicated, that could very well be the case. I personally will not have issue with it; at least compared to worsened IS vs. Clan balance post-skill tree, anyway.

Players like progression, but they don't like grinds, unless they're very interested in JRPGs or have far too much time available to them! There's a certain weight, a feel to skill increases that must be met. Players roll their eyes at a 1-2% increase, but a 5-10 increase? That's noticeable, at least. 15-20%? That's huge! The other extreme is also bad, because while a 50-100% increase is nice, it's typically unbalanced.

Basically, PGI can significantly reduce the number of nodes available, make each node feel worth the investment and like an actual upgrade AND make their skill tree cleaner and better streamlined than THIS mess!

[Humpday]

Abort abort!!! 404 page not found!

Edited by Humpday, 28 April 2017 - 06:04 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

cazidin, on 28 April 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple question. Why is PGI so adamant against a simple skill tree, rather than this maze-like circuit of low level hexes? They've fixed the refund process, mostly. Engine-agility decoupling seems fine now. They even buffed the blast door damage reduction but THIS? Why is THIS still a problem?

1) Attempt to prevent min-maxing by using a non-linear skill tree of 'MOAR POWER' (i.e. the current garbage)

2) Portion of community can't sit down for 5 minutes and plan out how they want to utilize a skill tree for a specific mech, or are too ignorant to try.

3) WAAAAAHHHH! Skill Tree Sucks!

Its not amazing but it does a decent job at giving players a 'skill tree' and having to make a choice between how they want to specialize their mech builds. You can't make your mech move better, run cooler, have better weapon performance, improve armor/structure, have radar 100% radar derp, and see mechs with seismic all at the exact same time.

I tried out a mech build with different specializations including improved survivability, better weapons performance, higher mobility bonuses, and the difference in their performance was noticeable. However, I had to CHOOSE, did I want to do more damage, survive longer, or move better? Other things such as utility also exist but those were harder to test as they require specific circumstances and will work fairly different in a 12v12 match.

Basically, YES it needs work, but its BETTER than our crappy place holder of 'MOAR POWER!'

Edited by MauttyKoray, 28 April 2017 - 06:06 PM.

[Mole]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 28 April 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

Yes... I refuse to give google/facebook/twitter positive search tracking results for evil human beings. I did not "assign" them the names, others did and I agree with the concept of refusing to use their actual names. But then that might be too in-depth of a reason for someone of your limited mental caliber.

Your constant superiority complex over anyone and everyone that you display in every word you type or say is really something, you know that? It's cute.

[Appogee]

cazidin, on 28 April 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Why is PGI so adamant against a simple skill tree, rather than this maze-like circuit of low level hexes?

Because they are utilising the opportunity of the skill tree revamp to create additional revenue opportunities for themselves.

[Battlemaster56]

Well from what I remember people was saying the simpler non convoluted skill tree was so easy to min max it was hilarious, human pride(gotta love observing that). And pgi gave us the skill web, I would be okay with it if was atleast show some organization everytime I look at it my ocd kicks in just a little for me to just rearrange every node to their respective groups.

Also guys pleas eleave politics out of this it already enough that it's shove down every westerns throat these days we just do need more.

So


Take it somewhere else

(Gif supplies are low atm need to some resupply sooner or later)

[BurningDesire]

i feel that large parts of the skill tree are redundant. Things like Armor structure, agility, and mech operations are something you will take on ALL mech regardless. Its not something that you will change up and its pointless being there.
They would be better to just make it one node or just buff all the mechs to the desired levels.

As the game stands now you will run armor structure at max cause nobody in a medium or light mech likes to get one shot. You will run armor structure in a heavy and assault because you are the main focal points of fire.

You will run Agility in all classes because movement is life. You wont run an Assault with out it because you will be light fodder and you will use it in a light because rolling damage is how you survive.

Mech operations will be used in full too due to the fact all weapons make heat, bar gauss of course. Seldom do you see a gauss only build.

So really you could remove 3 out of the 7 trees and combine those fringe skills to the other trees, make the whole setup easier to use, maybe reduce the amount of skill points to use. But as it stands out of the 91 skill points you are using around 80-84 skill points just to make your mech viable which removes most of the choice in the skill tree

[B0oN]

Why the maze setup in skill tree ?
It´s so easy to see .
Inherent OPness .
To minimize that possibility shake up skills, so that some useful nodes are hidden behind less useful ones .

Hard choices, I know.