32 replies to this topic

[bert bargo]

Boats.

Fking boats.

I really, truly hope this game doesnt become "LOLOLOL 23 MEDIUM LASERS!" "o hay guize 4 ultra ac20s " "yo look at my 8 lrm20s. comin atcha kiiiiiiiiiiiiid"

edit: MWLL does a good job of offering mostly fair mech fits to the players but theres 0 customization as a result..

How do you think loadouts will work? I hope its sort of similar to mechwarrior 4... that definitely helped reduce the boat problem, even though it didnt completely kill it.

Edited by bert bargo, 31 October 2011 - 02:12 PM.

[CobraFive]

Yeah, I think the MW4 style loadout "slots" made more logical sense anyway. Although instead of the MW4 style "Energy, Balistic, Missile" to me the MekPak style "Direct Fire, Indirect Fire, Ammo, Heat" based slots were better.

The good thing about an F2P game is they can react to balance issues as they arise, constantly. The game never leaves active development. So if it does become a problem, it can be fixed.

[CarpeMortis]

The FAQ is oddly obtuse on this subject. In the same answer it says we can "customize our load out", but then refers us to a previous Q&A on the subject of weapons armor and accessories... A Q&A I can't seem to find.

[Evinthal]

I personally hope they don't have customization in the common sense where you can pick a design and modify to carry whatever. I'd really like to see them do something like having multiple canonical variants of the same 'mech, and then if you want to customize it you have to pay to have it modified (and by pay I mean with in game currency, not real cash...). Hopefully people will have to work towards having that custom 'mech of doom that they want.

[Wieland]

Thats what i liked in MPBT:3025 over the Mechwarrior Multiplayer stuff, no customization. There where variants but you couldnt change loadout. That cuts down on a lot of problems

[Darklord]

Rather they just stay to the orignal board games variants for the mech choices instead of being able to build you own


DL

[lothar]

I do not want custom loadouts for the IS. Stick to the TROs and lore as much as possible. I think customizing the loadouts devalues the differences between mechs.

[diznoid]

darklord, on 31 October 2011 - 02:40 PM, said:

Rather they just stay to the orignal board games variants for the mech choices instead of being able to build you own


DL

They said they were trying to stick to tabletop rules where they can, but some things don't translate well. In the tabletop game you can customize anything at all, even build your own mechs. I made a superfast hatchetman, in my first game with it I got punched in the cockpit by an Atlas. Hilarity ensued. I strongly doubt it'll be that open-ended in this game, but having no customization at all would just be stupid.

Concerning boats though, people will always go for cookie-cutter builds. I enjoy building specific counters to them. In MW4, the best counter to the assault boats was speed and close-range weapons, for example.

[wanderer]

I'd like to see modifications cost in some form, including time. The more drastic the alteration, the more it costs...and if the 'Mech is destroyed, you need a new stock one that you then re-modify from there.

It'll mean custom boats can't just be spammed endlessly, which tends to drop the flavor of the game straight into vanilla.

[TheForce]

I wish it was stock mechs only.

In my experience from MW2, 3, and 4 competitive multiplayer, it all came down to two things:

1. Take the best mech available.
2. Load it up with the most effective weapon in the game.

This means no variety - games will be played with the that one good mech with one type of weapon. People play to win, they're not gonna take crappy mechs or weapons.

I really hope they can address this so we don't see a 1 mech 1 weapon boat fest like we've seen in the other MW games...

[Brixx]

Yeah, limiting the possible loadouts is a good idea imho. Or else it will turn into static alphastriking and jumping again.

[S3dition]

Weapons dictate tactics. During MW4, I'd make servers with pea-soup fog, urban maps, then take a bushwacker and shut off my radar. Jump snipers generally rage quit. Even stomped a few energy based Daishi up close. Them were some fun games

More to the point of this post, I'm guessing it will be more similar to Mech Commander 2, where your load out is much more limited.

Edited by s3dition, 31 October 2011 - 03:05 PM.

[Odin]

Boats, the ruin of every descend gameplay.

Can't think they'll let it happen after so much trouble in the past.
Some customising is ok, as long as it don't gets out of hand though.

[CarpeMortis]

I posted in the suggestion forum topic about limiting customization, but it bears repeating. The "boat" issue was a result of a bad implementation of Omnimechs, and economy. There are no omnimechs in the IS as of 3050, and Catalyst has published rules for refits and modifications of Non-Omnimechs. These rules cover everything from simple field mods (replace that ML with an ERML), up to and including factory refits (XL engines for everyone!). Also as of 3050, advanced tech is not only scarce (and therefor expensive both to own and operate), but often faction specific. These factors would make for awesome campaign play. Limit the modifications and repairs you can make based on what facilities you currently have access to. Make weapons and ammo harder to come by based on the region you are fighting in and your employer. Obviously game-play trumps canon, but you could go a long way towards combating the "boat" issue this way. Sure you can work your *** off to make a 3 Gauss monster, but can you afford to risk it on the field? That to me is the EPITOME of the pre-clan Battletech universe. These gods of the battlefield that are almost too precious to use.

[ApheX]

I agree with the idea of the MW4 loadout system for this game. People are going to want to customise there mech's to how they want to use them. Not everyone will be happy with just having the three or four stock variants, plus i personally enjoyed tinkering with a mech. It was fun being able to change the heatsink setup, engine speed and weapons loadout. Changing the mech setup for the type of battle you were going to into made the game that much better.

[Ilfi]

I don't mind boats too much. Even with slots, MW4 still had them. It's just a result of human nature and gamers wanting to game the system to make specialized equipment. As long as there is some semblance of a MechLab, or the capacity to choose between several variants, I will be happy.

I'd just rather not be stuck with what MechAssault did: no MechLab, and only two variants per chassis.

[TheForce]

carpemortis, on 31 October 2011 - 03:14 PM, said:

I posted in the suggestion forum topic about limiting customization, but it bears repeating. The "boat" issue was a result of a bad implementation of Omnimechs, and economy. There are no omnimechs in the IS as of 3050, and Catalyst has published rules for refits and modifications of Non-Omnimechs. These rules cover everything from simple field mods (replace that ML with an ERML), up to and including factory refits (XL engines for everyone!). Also as of 3050, advanced tech is not only scarce (and therefor expensive both to own and operate), but often faction specific. These factors would make for awesome campaign play. Limit the modifications and repairs you can make based on what facilities you currently have access to. Make weapons and ammo harder to come by based on the region you are fighting in and your employer. Obviously game-play trumps canon, but you could go a long way towards combating the "boat" issue this way. Sure you can work your *** off to make a 3 Gauss monster, but can you afford to risk it on the field? That to me is the EPITOME of the pre-clan Battletech universe. These gods of the battlefield that are almost too precious to use.

I like the sound of this...some thoughts for the game:

• technology (weapons) is scarce, and expensive (i'm thinking auction house like DDO perhaps)
  
• hiring a tech to mod your mech is expensive, and you're not guaranteed the mod would be successful (like pnp back in the day).
  
• taking time would be great too but how do implement this?

[jojobear]

If PG is sticking to Btech canon, then only omnimechs should be able to boat.

Battlemech:
-engine and armor can be changed and upgraded rather easily.
-Weapon loadout and such cannot be changed without weeks of overhauling, troublshooting, and tweaking. An autocannon hardpoint can only have an autocannon installed (no gauss rifle). A laser hardpoint can only have a laser installed (no ppc).

Omnimech:
-Weapons and equipment use a standard modular setup. Anything can be switched for anything else.
-The armor and engine cannot be adjusted without a complete overhaul.

At this point in the timeline, omnimechs are all clan tech. The IS does not begin to make their own omnimechs until the fedcom civil war.


I would imagine we won't be seeing omnimechs for a while. Even when we do, their armor and speed probably won't be adjustable.

This is all conjecture.

[CarpeMortis]

The rules are there in the current version of the Tabletop Game (i cant' remember off the top of my head if it's Tac or Srat Ops). But it's simple enough (says the man with little to no coding experience), to make repairs variable based on those rules MekWars has had it for it's MegaMek Campaign system for some time now. It's just fallen out of use because the code is old and incompatible with new features. This also offers opportunity to monetize the repair/refit system. Paying real cash for improved techies to repair or refit mechs, doesn't directly change your tactical ability on the field, and allowing the same tasks to be done for free, but at a slower rate or higher in-game currency cost means that everyone would still have access.

[CarpeMortis]

jojobear, on 31 October 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

If PG is sticking to Btech canon, then only omnimechs should be able to boat.

Ummm What? There are cannon examples of non omnimech boats that walk of the factory lines with 8+ ML... The Komodo immediately springs to mind, there are plenty more.

jojobear, on 31 October 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

Battlemech:
-engine and armor can be changed and upgraded rather easily.
-Weapon loadout and such cannot be changed without weeks of overhauling, troublshooting, and tweaking. An autocannon hardpoint can only have an autocannon installed (no gauss rifle). A laser hardpoint can only have a laser installed (no ppc).

Again... What? The engine has ALWAYS been the hardest thing to upgrade. Under the current rules you can't do it without the equivalent of a factory. Armor on the other hand is in fact relatively easy to upgrade/replace, on any mech, omni or not. But it does take significant time (though not weeks, more like days). As for weapons they can be replaced with similar items. ERML for a ML, or SSRM for a SRM. This can be done in the field and only takes a day or two... If you want to make larger changes it takes more time and beefier facilities. Many mechs in the TROs have field refits that replace weapons with new types.

jojobear, on 31 October 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

Omnimech:
-Weapons and equipment use a standard modular setup. Anything can be switched for anything else.
-The armor and engine cannot be adjusted without a complete overhaul.

This is close. Only Omnis can swap weapons and equipment in the field easily with minimal down time (minutes and hours), but some items they can't change without longer down times and heavier facilities. Things like MASC, or changing from double to single heat sinks. But they CAN change those items as well as armor and engines given the proper facilities and enough time.

It has all been covered by Catalyst Game Lab's table top rules.

Edited by carpemortis, 31 October 2011 - 03:41 PM.