61 replies to this topic

[Znail]

Norris J Packard, on 21 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

They aren't going to split the community, so toss that idea out of the equation immediately.

Oh sure, I have no doubt that they'll introduce Clan accounts with certain perks related to Clan Mechs and so on. They'll probably even put in a Clan Mech vs IS Mech gametype but they will not split the community. If you have to force players to choose between playing with their friends or playing with the Mad Cat, they are going to be in an extremely bad mood.

Thus in all likelihood for IS players, an OmniMech will simply occupy two drop slots.



Because the Devs aren't stupid.

Err, if you and your friend can't agree on if you want to play IS or Clan when you plan to drop together, then you got issues.

[Norris J Packard]

Adridos, on 21 February 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

IDK, they are pretty confident with making statements out pals from the other side will get to play as their precious Clans.

Of course, but to assume that IS Players won't be able to acquire OmniMechs is just absurd.

[Adridos]

Znail, on 21 February 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Err, if you and your friend can't agree on if you want to play IS or Clan when you plan to drop together, then you got issues.

As a Clanner, though, all teamwork basically falls out of the window.

If you ever looked at PuGs and thought how stupid of them not to focus fire, coordinate, etc., then you've seen how a Clan warrior should actually behave, brave and powerful, but stupid and arrogant.

[jakucha]

I'm going to find it fun fighting clan mechs. They'll probably have to make IS drop with more players than Clan team to keep it somewhat even.

[Znail]

Adridos, on 21 February 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

As a Clanner, though, all teamwork basically falls out of the window.

If you ever looked at PuGs and thought how stupid of them not to focus fire, coordinate, etc., then you've seen how a Clan warrior should actually behave, brave and powerful, but stupid and arrogant.

That is not really an issue though as thar rule is only present for as long as the opponents also follows it. So the first time more then one IS mech hits the same Clan mech so would it turn into a general melee and thus no targeting rules for the Clan pilots.

[Adridos]

Znail, on 21 February 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

That is not really an issue though as thar rule is only present for as long as the opponents also follows it. So the first time more then one IS mech hits the same Clan mech so would it turn into a general melee and thus no targeting rules for the Clan pilots.

Which, again, brings the unbalance of Clans into question.

Either they are enforced to follow the code strictly... but that kills any kind of units/groups beyond RP-ers.
Or they are bound by it only against PuGs, but that would mean death to any unit daring to focus fire, since the Clan firepower, when concentrated is really out of scale for any IS or even Clan mech to actually survive.

[Kousagi]

Relics, on 21 February 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

House Liao's Red Lancers are the Metagame Winners of the Future.... Enjoy.

We are the Red Lancers of House Liao, if you think you have what it takes to fill the last 7 spots available on our 24 Pilot roster, then join Houseliao.com hop on our TS3 and look me up. Happy Hunting, We are invite only, so no promises.

Colonel Relics of the Chancellor's Red Lancers.

Well, at least it shows we have nothing to worry about at all....

[zverofaust]

I never did understand why people think there's somehow going to be a "clan team" and a "IS team". There isn't. It's going to be exactly like it is now, just with Clan mechs sprinkled onto both sides. Even CW will be this way; the only distinction between Clan and Inner Sphere will be your forum sig.

[8RoundsRapid]

zverofaust, on 21 February 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

I never did understand why people think there's somehow going to be a "clan team" and a "IS team". There isn't. It's going to be exactly like it is now, just with Clan mechs sprinkled onto both sides. Even CW will be this way; the only distinction between Clan and Inner Sphere will be your forum sig.

No teams in CW? I thought he entire idea was to get on a team and fight for your unit, be it House, Merc, Clan, whatever...

Seems like a pretty stupid idea to not have teams. What would be the point of CW and the clan invasion if everybody is just thrown together randomly?

I don't think your idea has any merit.

[The Cheese]

I predict that the CLBX/20 will be the best thing ever.

[skullman86]

Kobold, on 21 February 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Some variation on this seems most likely. Once Community Warfare is in play, I'm not sure why people think clan mechs will show up on inner sphere teams.

Salvaged clan tech?

I'm hoping for two battle configurations. Clan vs IS (or Clan) and mixed vs mixed.

If you are fighting a battle as a clanner, you will run a unit made entirely of clan mechs; if you are fighting a battle for an IS faction, you will be able to run a mixed unit with a hard cap on clan tech or just higher battle values (i.e. multiple player slots for one mech).

If clan tech is going to be as big of an upgrade as it sounds, giving IS some flexibility in their lance composition might be a good way to balance out the factions.

[Adridos]

skullman86, on 21 February 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

If clan tech is going to be as big of an upgrade as it sounds, giving IS some flexibility in their lance composition might be a good way to balance out the factions.

The problem is that if you allow IS to take Clan tech, it will completely erase IS tech from existence, since it is lighter, faster, stronger, more effective and produces less heat.

[zverofaust]

8RoundsRapid, on 21 February 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

No teams in CW? I thought he entire idea was to get on a team and fight for your unit, be it House, Merc, Clan, whatever...

Seems like a pretty stupid idea to not have teams. What would be the point of CW and the clan invasion if everybody is just thrown together randomly?

I don't think your idea has any merit.

I never said there wouldn't be teams, but that there'd be no real physical distinction between any one team or another besides their Forum Avatar/Signature etc. A "Draconis Combine" team will have Dragons and Atlases and Madcats and Firemoths and blah blah; everyone will have the same Mechs.

[FupDup]

Adridos, on 21 February 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

The problem is that if you allow IS to take Clan tech, it will completely erase IS tech from existence, since it is lighter, faster, stronger, more effective and produces less heat.

Perhaps I am about to commit an act or heresy and invite most of the forumgoers here to bomb my house, murder my family, and write "Helter Skelter" on the walls in their blood, but there can be other tradeoffs to help reduce the overkill.

The easiest example I can think of is having Clan ER lasers having a longer beam duration than IS (i.e. 1.5s for CERLL). That would make them require more skill to utilize effectively. Ballistics and missiles will be harder to think of stuff for but you get the idea.


I've also seen pilot tree modifications suggested. The current IS pilot tree of +% stat bonuses are immensely useful, particularly stuff like +10% speed. Clanners, instead of +stat things, could have their pilot tree be oriented around increasing the hardpoint flexibility of their mech (assuming that they don't start out with all omni hardpoints). For instance, you could upgrade an Energy slot to a Direct Fire (ballistic or energy) or a Heat Generating (missile or energy), and when you get both you could make it into an omni (any weapon).



Lastly, not even IS tech follows cannon to the letter. How can we be sure that Clan tech won't suffer a similar fate?

Edited by FupDup, 21 February 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[Thuzel]

Adridos, on 21 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

And then they announce Clan weapons won't be available on IS mechs for balance reasons...

That's my prediction.

I mean, imagine XL engines that don't blow up when side torso is destoroyed (yes, they do blow up when both are, but every mech except for zombies has nothing to loose, anway), LRMs with no minimal range, DHS that only take 2 crits and possibly dissipate more and et cetera.

This.

Clan tech breaks the PGI balance system in so many ways it's not even funny. Also, considering they apparently don't want to use a tiered approach, I don't see any graceful way for PGI to introduce clan tech at all. 10 tons of clan weapon would be all you'd need to absolutely own the field.

[DocBach]

Adridos, on 21 February 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

As a Clanner, though, all teamwork basically falls out of the window.

If you ever looked at PuGs and thought how stupid of them not to focus fire, coordinate, etc., then you've seen how a Clan warrior should actually behave, brave and powerful, but stupid and arrogant.

The Pugs playing like Clanners made me laugh out loud.

Could force even less coordination in a couple ways... Clan 'Mechs can't share target information, or target a 'Mech other Clanners are targeting. Once another team member shoots that 'Mech, it is bracketed and every time a team mate shoots at it, they lose honor points which would be the equivalent of Clan C-bills.

Edited by DocBach, 21 February 2013 - 04:55 PM.

[Merky Merc]

Adridos, on 21 February 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

The problem is that if you allow IS to take Clan tech, it will completely erase IS tech from existence, since it is lighter, faster, stronger, more effective and produces less heat.

Why does this matter though? They could leave the engines specific to either faction and still allow clan weapons in IS mechs. It's not like they have to make a model for a Large Laser, so they're not losing out on the work they would lose by not allowing mixtech. Would you prefer a game in which no IS mech ever appears or one in which no IS medium laser ever appears?

[Skadi]

Depends what mechs we get...
Bane/Kraken?
10 Clan AC2's.

[Philadelphia Collins]

has anyone said ssrm6 boat?

[Roadkill]

Pyrrho, on 21 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Wouldn't a 6 C-ER-PPC Stalker contend with both of those?

Not unless they plan to allow mixed tech, which I doubt at first.

But yeah. 6 CERPPC on some chassis is a long-range SplatCat. 90 point alpha all to one hit location at 810 meters.

Of course that's also 90 heat in one alpha, which would be tough to deal with even with CDHS.