48 replies to this topic

[Livebait]

I think you should get a reward every quarter that the cap bar moves as well as a bonus for total neutralize/cap of it. The idea is a good one the Dev's have just poor execution of it.

[Mercules]

Kousagi, on 22 February 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

But a win by cap is not show casing player skill... Its just showing that you can run from point A to point B and stand still for X amount of time. Though, If you are wanting your Elo higher to Fight better people, then why are you capping? Would you not be Fighting? Since you are after a good match....

While it only slightly shows my skill at piloting and avoiding the enemy what it does show is a lack of player skill from the enemy who let me wander right past them. If you get capped it's because you din't proactively prevent it and just trundled stupidly forward.

[Kousagi]

Theres no reward in assault for capping, cause Assault is more a of Team death match. The base was just put in as a just in case measure. So like if you killed all but 1 mech, and he runs off to hide and shuts down, you will never find him and the match would draw. But! we have the base, so that instead, you can just walk over and cap to end the match.... On Conquest there is a reward for capping, your team gets Cbills for every point you have so..

@Mercules, Piloting skill? Its not that hard to make it to a enemys base as a light mech... Plus, how is it a lack of skill for the enemy to make it to your base? Not all routes are always covered. Plus who cares if they cap your base? I'll let them cap it, cause I know I am going to make 3-4 times what they do. They can have their 25k cbills, I'll take my 100k+. Conquest is slightly different, but hey its got 5 cap points.

Edited by Kousagi, 22 February 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Mercules]

Kousagi, on 22 February 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Theres no reward in assault for capping, cause Assault is more a of Team death match. The base was just put in as a just in case measure. So like if you killed all but 1 mech, and he runs off to hide and shuts down, you will never find him and the match would draw. But! we have the base, so that instead, you can just walk over and cap to end the match.... On Conquest there is a reward for capping, your team gets Cbills for every point you have so..

Ehem.... The ONLY reason the match immediately ends when you kill all opposing mechs in Assault is because the devs realize that most people are competent enough to wander over to a capture point once there is no one trying to stop them. It might be a large assumption but it is there. Killing all the mechs automatically secures the enemy base because there is no one there to stop you.

Securing the enemy base is still the primary goal. You do it by being there, or killing anyone who can stop you.

[elbloom]

capping bonus in conquest, okay.

capping bonus in assault, NEVER !

[Toxic Ogre]

To me MWO is a "First Person Strategic" game rather than shooter game. That being said, Strategies like capping should be highly rewarded. Any modern day general / admiral would agree that being able to win without fighting (or at least minimizing it), is the best win of all.

[hammerreborn]

Kousagi, on 22 February 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Theres no reward in assault for capping, cause Assault is more a of Team death match. The base was just put in as a just in case measure. So like if you killed all but 1 mech, and he runs off to hide and shuts down, you will never find him and the match would draw. But! we have the base, so that instead, you can just walk over and cap to end the match.... On Conquest there is a reward for capping, your team gets Cbills for every point you have so..

@Mercules, Piloting skill? Its not that hard to make it to a enemys base as a light mech... Plus, how is it a lack of skill for the enemy to make it to your base? Not all routes are always covered. Plus who cares if they cap your base? I'll let them cap it, cause I know I am going to make 3-4 times what they do. They can have their 25k cbills, I'll take my 100k+. Conquest is slightly different, but hey its got 5 cap points.

Except in Conquest everyone on the team benefits from having the 5 points, while the light that grabbed all 5 all match gets absolutely nothing in terms of rewards since he doesn't do damage, doesn't get kills/assists, but probably ended up last man alive and won the game....to win XP rewards and a c-bill bonus that equals what the rest of his team got, and nothing else while his team got damage, kill, kill assist, and other various bonuses.

[Super Mono]

Conquest already has a capping bonus as you earn more cbills for more resources you gather.

In Assault the base cap should be blocked until half-way through the match. It should be used to end the game if the last person is running and hiding, not a way to end the match in the first few minutes before any shooting starts.

[Kousagi]

hammerreborn, on 22 February 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

Except in Conquest everyone on the team benefits from having the 5 points, while the light that grabbed all 5 all match gets absolutely nothing in terms of rewards since he doesn't do damage, doesn't get kills/assists, but probably ended up last man alive and won the game....to win XP rewards and a c-bill bonus that equals what the rest of his team got, and nothing else while his team got damage, kill, kill assist, and other various bonuses.

And a Light mech that does nothing but cap has also taken himself out the fight, and removed a Big asset from his team. Its all too common for me to see a mech do nothing but cap, and be the last man standing vs 3 or more mechs, and get killed horribly cause he did nothing all match.

I play as a light mech, Its not hard to cap and top the damage charts. Its called tactics. A light mech that does nothing but cap is worthless to his team.

Edited by Kousagi, 22 February 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Tice Daurus]

Kousagi, on 22 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

And a Light mech that does nothing but cap has also taken himself out the fight, and removed a Big asset from his team. Its all too common for me to see a mech do nothing but cap, and be the last man standing vs 3 or more mechs, and get killed horribly cause he did nothing all match.

I play as a light mech, Its not hard to cap and top the damage charts. Its called tactics. A light mech that does nothing but cap is worthless to his team.

I agree that light mechs SHOULD be assisting to help win with the team. But if your team is severely outnumbered and dying fast, and the light mech runs to cap the base and wins...that's NOT WORTHLESS and you are spouting propaganda. A WIN IS A WIN IS A WIN. Whether you destroy the mechs against you on the enemy team or you cap a base, it's still a win, and there should be no stigma or hate being thrown at you because "you're a coward" or "you're a base cappin' wussy".

That's crap and I'm calling it as such.

[Phalanx100bc]

The problem here is the perception/reality that PUGS-SOLOS (for the most part) go straight to base cap or run at critical points at firefights leaving 4- mans to do all the work.

The worse being when you try to reach out and communicate to PUGS/SOLOS you get no response as they sit back and wait for you to do all the work and then run past you do little to no damage on thier way to the base cap.

Why is it so hard to type...(we are going to base rush)? At least you have info to adapt your tactics to.

Now who's ruining the game for who?

Any non-flattering comments are well deserved in my opinion, and trust me I have no hesitation in doing so if your lack of communication, esprit de corp and damage inflicted are seriously lacking.

Edited by Phalanx100bc, 22 February 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Tice Daurus]

Phalanx100bc, on 22 February 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

The problem here is the perception/reality that PUGS-SOLOS (for the most part) go straight to base cap or run at critical points at firefights leaving 4- mans to do all the work.

The worse being when you try to reach out and communicate to PUGS/SOLOS you get no response as they sit back and wait for you to do all the work and then run past you do little to no damage on thier way to the base cap.

Why is it so hard to type...(we are going to base rush)? At least you have info to adapt your tactics to.

Now who's ruining the game for who?

Any non-flattering comments are well deserved in my opinion, and trust me I have no hesitation in doing so if your lack of communication and esprit de corp are nowhere to be found.

I'll agree with this...somewhat. Communication in this game is absolutely critical and you need to be working to talk to your PUGGIES to let them know what you are doing.

However...when the game has gone south...and you're the only mech left in the game. And someone from your team has already gotten to the enemy base to cap and the base is almost capped, and you're the only one left in the game, and the odds are 8 vs 1 or 7 vs 1...YOU DAMN WELL BETTER RUN TO THE BASE AND CAP for the win. There is no way in hell anyone is going to destroy 7 or 8 mechs to secure the win. I've never seen it done, and even if many of the mechs are injured, they are going to gangbag you with focus fire and win every single time. Do the smart thing and win via cap. I've seen too many morons thinking they are the next Solaris champion and that they are going to win against impossible odds and destroy everyone. It's not going to happen.

And if anyone tells me I'm wuss for capping a base, I'm gonna laugh my buns off at enemy team for being tactically stupid and allowing me to cap the base. And tell 'em.

[PropagandaWar]

Gaan Cathal, on 22 February 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I actually meant "his point was that it should". But that said, I agree - capping bases or conquest points is a win condition. You should probably get rewarded for playing the game mode, that's fairly widely accepted game design. More win conditions would be nice, both in isolation and in multiple condition matches, but as it stands one win condition is under-rewarded compared with the other.

If they instituted a base capture speed that reflected mechs in game I would be fine with it. As it stands with advance base cap mod it’s pretty lame to have a base capped in seconds. So if there is one mech on the field vs 6 the 6 team should be able to cap relatively fast, while the one mech caps slow. If there are 6 mechs on a base and 6 alive the base cap should run down slow. [/color]

If the base had static defenses then current cap speeds would be a bit more viable. Also defending the base with mechs is one thing but there is still a nice little problem called lights even though they get hit more still don’t register damage like most other mechs. So having to sacrifice resources to defend the base on what most likely is a bugged

Edited by PropagandaWar, 22 February 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

PropagandaWar, on 22 February 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

If they instituted a base capture speed that reflected mechs in game I would be fine with it. As it stands with advance base cap mod it’s pretty lame to have a base capped in seconds. So if there is one mech on the field vs 6 the 6 team should be able to cap relatively fast, while the one mech caps slow. If there are 6 mechs on a base and 6 alive the base cap should run down slow.

If the base had static defenses then current cap speeds would be a bit more viable. Also defending the base with mechs is one thing but there is still a nice little problem called lights even though they get hit more still don’t register damage like most other mechs. So having to sacrifice resources to defend the base on what most likely is a bugged

I agree that the base capture rate could stand to be adjusted, especially for Alpine. That doesn't invalidate the need to reward people for following objectives though. Second point is irrelevant, it would be like arguing against Alpine when PPC were still too hot because Gauss. (Quite besides the fact that this could be on a ******* quantum-fibre-optic-lan and people would still complain about lights not taking enough damage because dear god no they didn't miss. As a light pilot I shoot lights a lot. A lot. I'm not top-tier and ergo I miss sometimes. Sometimes because I miss, sometimes because I jink, sometimes because I forget about that ******* firing delay on my SRMs. I've seen very little indication they are more damage resistant than any other class of mech. That means yes, I have seen shots 'bounce' off them, but I've also seen it happen with Centurions and Dragons. Also thread derail.)

[Menthro Kerensky]

Super Mono, on 22 February 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Conquest already has a capping bonus as you earn more cbills for more resources you gather.

In Assault the base cap should be blocked until half-way through the match. It should be used to end the game if the last person is running and hiding, not a way to end the match in the first few minutes before any shooting starts.

This, I play lights and cicadas, and even I get annoyed by someone sprinting to the base and just capping at one minute in. I could do it, and I have done it several times when the other team initiated it, but it feels so cheesy. Limiting it to half way would give people time to fight. I would still put up a warning though if someone was on base even if the cap was disabled at that moment.

[Whompity]

Agree with Menthro.

Plus I hate having to drop who I'm killing and zip back to find that the enemy Jenner just left.

Such is life, however.

[BatWing]

this subject has been discussed so many times.. and it s obvious the audience is just divided 50% between ppl who would like the CAP bonus and people who would not.

I actually see both sides. What i think would just provide the solution is an action from PGI to create 2 game modes:

• Assault pure TDM - no bases
  
• Assault CAP - the actual way to be

I don t think is right to try to convince someone who is not agree with the tactical aspect of CAPPING, on the other end there is people who loves the tactical aspect of Capping, who is ready to play a game and FIGHT and/or cap depending what the needs on the battlefield suggest the best choice.

I am obviously pro-Cap but i don t want to sell my point to anyone.

However, so far on the launch screen i will see:

OBJECTIVES:

• capture enemy base
  
• destroy all enemy forces

exactly in this order, i will CAP the hell out of the game, if the strategical condition requires a CAP to offer a Victory.

[riverslq]

I like heading to the enemy base first if possible to attempt to split up their main force. maybe get the rest of my team some easy back shots on them as well.

going all british on them with 8vs8 firing lines, that's a bit antiquated.

[Tice Daurus]

Menthro, on 22 February 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

This, I play lights and cicadas, and even I get annoyed by someone sprinting to the base and just capping at one minute in. I could do it, and I have done it several times when the other team initiated it, but it feels so cheesy. Limiting it to half way would give people time to fight. I would still put up a warning though if someone was on base even if the cap was disabled at that moment.

Ok and how does this reward a player or a group or a team that runs through the ice tunnel and the other team doesn't even bother to check it and that player or group or team reaches the base in under two minutes and caps the base? Do they have to wait for another 5 minutes and 30 seconds to cap the base?

No.

If you're stupid enough to get capped because you stink tactically, you deserve the insult and humiliation of being capped early and LOSE early. This isn't some 1st person shooter with robots. It's also a tactical chess game of how you can defeat the enemy. If this was a 1st person robot shooter, I'd lose interest in the game quick. War is just that...war, and there should be a tactical reward for capping a base and defeating an enemy for doing so. It doesn't have to be a lot.

Again, I'm not advocating this game turn into BC:O, but allow me the ability to use some smarts, some sneakiness, and some tactics into the game to humiliate the enemy.

And I want to edit this for colleage Batwing here....totally agree. The need to have a straight up 8 vs 8 (or 12 vs 12) assault with no capping involved aka Total Destruction and how it is currently with the ability to cap a base.

My only complaint with capping is it's a little bit...unrealistic. A base doesn't look like a base. One side should be defender and defend a actual base. One side should be a dropship zone where the dropship dropped you off at and look like a large dropship area. Dropships are huge compared to an Atlas. It would like like you standing next to a large 747 jumo jet. The same thing with the dropships. So the attacker side should be huge to sport at least a Union-Class dropship.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 22 February 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[Golfin Man]

Kousagi, on 22 February 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Why are so many people so wrapped up in Getting the victory screen at the end of a match, when it means absolutely nothing at all. Winning right now is getting lots of cbills and xp, and has nothing to do with getting victory or defeat screens. So Go ahead and cap the base, no ones going to care, cause they will still get 4 times the amount of cbills that match then you do, cause they fought the match and you did nothing but cap.

Now When CW comes along, then sure, victory screens will mean something. Though the win itself will have a meaning so theres still no reason to reward the cap with anything. The Win will be the reward.

What every happened to winning because thats the point of the game? Of course its supposed to be fun blah blah but I'm having the most fun when my team is getting steamrolled while im capping the base and winning. Its basically gifting myself a win at the expense of two dumb teams-one thats too dumb to defend their base and one thats too dumb to know when theyre gonna lose a fight.