99 replies to this topic

[Norris J Packard]

keith, on 24 February 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

lets ad shake every time a mech takes a step. thats ever .5 to .75 sec. lets add shake ever time u turn, u know a 35 ton mech with gryos turning is not a simple thing to move. REALISM is not the best thing. lets leave in part of the range game instead of having it all run into 3-400m range, that is not fun.

It is much better than playing only poptart games until the end of time.

You don't think it is bad now? Just wait until an Assault starts doing it in two months.

You will change your attitude.

[P e n u m b r a]

so what it really comes down to is what you prefer playing? its just an opinion that its super strong it really is not. sorry but this honestly is a L2P issue you are trying to rule things out that you have difficulty playing against. JJ snipe its a valid tactic and adds diversity to the game if you want it to shake like that then it should shake when you charge in fast and try and brawl also...

Edited by Le0yo, 24 February 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[keith]

after running around a few rounds, what bobbing of reticule while running are u talking about? there is none. so y put it in for jumping.

[Norris J Packard]

Le0yo, on 24 February 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

so what it really comes down to is what you prefer playing? its just an opinion that its super strong it really is not. sorry but this honestly is a L2P issue you are trying to rule things out that you have difficulty playing against. JJ snipe its a valid tactic and adds diversity to the game if you want it to shake like that then it should shake when you charge in fast and try and brawl also...

Except it isn't a "valid tactic" when it becomes the end all, be all for the meta.

If L2P was a valid argument than MW4 wouldn't have simply been all about poptarting and nothing else.

Take your swill elsewhere, I'll have none of it in this thread.

[blinkin]

i have yet to see any "poptarting" in this game, but i think it brings the game a little closer to being a simulator.

it is silly for 25 tons (at least) of machinery, that is clearly designed for ground combat, to suddenly be able to jump into the air and be a perfectly stable firing platform. all of this being done with massive jets that are fired straight down for thrust.

these are not aerospace tech. these are ground vehicles that had engines strapped to them so that they could briefly leap onto or over terrain.

Edited by blinkin, 24 February 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

I agree. imho it should be proportional, so light mechs continue to stabilize with little shake, and heavier mechs get progressively more shake. Sort of like moving fast makes it harder to aim.

[Norris J Packard]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 24 February 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

I agree. imho it should be proportional, so light mechs continue to stabilize with little shake, and heavier mechs get progressively more shake. Sort of like moving fast makes it harder to aim.

That... might be okay, but I'd still worry about the 3 PPC 5J doing real damage.

Lights being able to do that? That's fine because they can't poptart anyhow.

[P e n u m b r a]

rushing was also viable in mw4 FFP it was only not viable in 3rd as you could look over the terrain without showing yourself.. also did you see the state of it once mektek got a hold of it listening to posts like this there was a ton of over powered short range weapons with a thousand ways to shut people down and nerfed to hell long range weapons... as for not having anyone who does not agree with your suggestion post in the thread, well I think you do not know what a forum is for my friend.

Edited by Le0yo, 24 February 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[Leimrey]

Hmm, introducing cockpit shake wouldn't really solve the problem with experienced players. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that even when the cockpit is shaking, your reticule is not affected by this. So, you can accurately aim at the targets even though the cockpit is shaking.
How about we introduce reticule shake instead of cockpit shake, to simulate the fact that the 'mech's weapon stabilizers are having a hard time keeping the arm or torso mounted weapons aimed at a point you want them to be aimed at. Or, you could combine both of these effects into one package, which would make aiming harder and would introduce some randomness into your overall accuracy when firing in the air (this should still not be a cone of fire system, just some minor reticule shake to somewhat impair your accuracy).

Edited by Leimrey, 25 February 2013 - 12:38 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Dont' forget that jumpjets also gives you a huge turning advantage, you can use even 1 jumpjet to get off the ground and turn with A/D at a significantly faster rate than your mechs chassis/engine allows for. this completely negates the advantages of fast light mechs on a heavy/assault in close range, and makes jumpjets have important utility.

imho shake should scale, light mechs should be fairly stable jumpers with little compensation needed, heavy & assault should suffer sever shake as significantly more force is being applied to move the tonnage around. This would make jump sniping tougher and keep jumpjets in their role of more manueverbility & positioning jets than pop-tart jets for big & slow mechs.

Asit is now jumping actually improves your ability to aim - and thats not a good thing.

[RedDragon]

This should definitely be in the game. As long as JJs are fired, they should shake the mech from the acceleration. As soon as you go over to free fall, that's when you should be able to aim and shoot.

[keith]

RedDragon, on 25 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

This should definitely be in the game. As long as JJs are fired, they should shake the mech from the acceleration. As soon as you go over to free fall, that's when you should be able to aim and shoot.

okay, as long as u run your reticule should shake too. say GG to MWO, because no one will want to play. they need to balance sim and shooter. right now this is a FOTM build. have u notice about ever 2 weeks ppl complain about a new build, hum curious. wait another week and find the next thing to complain about:P

[Alex Wolfe]

keith, on 25 February 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

okay, as long as u run your reticule should shake too. say GG to MWO, because no one will want to play.

Nerfing poptarting (which only promotes a few chassis and weapons, and had already arguably ruined MW4 multiplayer) is only fair if you nerf all other means of combat as well?

What a leap of logic .

Not to mention that mechs are made to be sturdy, not aerodynamic.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 25 February 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[P e n u m b r a]

you clearly did not play mw4 ffp.. anyone who played NBT, or similar league's will tell you of all the teams that built a close ranged setup and did well with it. And im telling you now mwo close range firepower is even stronger. This is a L2P issue its only some people that have issues with the jump snipe, honestly adapt or die its like the jump sniper complaining that your cockpit should shake to hell as you are running fast...

refer to http://www.sirlin.ne...win-part-1.html your jump snipe is the "throw" in this article sadly with online games people whine till they get their way. We are finally seeing some variation and you complain? and no its not the meta and it never will be.

Edited by Le0yo, 25 February 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[Alex Wolfe]

Le0yo, on 25 February 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

L2P issue

All I can say is "I appreciate your opinion and I'm glad you seem to be in the minority. May you not get your way regarding this issue".

I appreciate your opinion and I'm glad you seem to be in the minority. May you not get your way regarding this issue; and good day to you, then.

[keith]

how about this, my team will glady snyc drop with no jumpers vs your team of jumpers. see who wins? game always comes down to to skill, my team put it top play in jumper because of the added mobility u get. ah that tiny hill nope lets jump over it to get a shot. i believe u should drop in 8 mans and see what is being played, no in the pugs. nothing should ever be balanced for pugs.

[Alex Wolfe]

keith, on 25 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

nothing should ever be balanced for pugs.

It's a free to play game. Everything should always be balanced for pubs.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Vide my previous post.

Spoiler

PuGs are "pick up games" with teams, fully random games are "pubs" as in "public games". Just FYI.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 25 February 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[Darkblood]

Tabrias07, on 22 February 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Simple. While JJ are active, screen shakes similar to being hit with a low-medium impulse weapon. Leaves people less time to aim and shoot in midair without making it completely impossible.

Also it´s very much cannon, there was a hefty -3 to hit while jumping in TT. Nice suggestion!

[Roland]

I can't really see any downside to adding some reticle shake when firing JJ's.

[Leimrey]

keith, on 25 February 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

okay, as long as u run your reticule should shake too

No, it should not. I'm no TT or BT lore guru, but I'm pretty damn sure all mechs have weapon stabilization systems, because it would impossible to fire your weapons with any modicum of accuracy while on the move otherwise. However, stabilizing a weapon on a mech that is running (even at high speed) is not the same as stabilizing it during take off, when a 25+ ton non aerodynamic (heck, many mechs aren't even symmetric) construction is accelerated fast enough to cover a vertical jump distance of 25m+ in a matter of seconds. The dynamic forces acting on the mech in this case would be quite significant, inducing severe shake not only in the cockpit, but also on any non-hard mounted weapons in the arms.
This assumption is indirectly confirmed by the fact that jumping mechs get an accuracy penalty when jumping in TT.

I think that all jumping mechs should have:

1. Cockpit shake effect associated with the entire flight duration, similar to that which the mech experiences during the initial stage of take off currently, to simulate the action of dynamic forces during flight which shake the mech and the pilot wearing the neurohelmet (which, I assume, provides the HUD to the pilot) in the cockpit.
2. Additional arm reticule shaking to simulate the action of dynamic forces on non hard mounted weapons.

These shaking effects shouldn't be so great that it becomes impossible to aim mid air, but they should prevent the jumper from landing pinpoint 500M+ center torso shots at will.

Another possible jump jet nerf is to reduce the speed of atmospheric air intake by the mech's compressors, reducing the speed at which your reaction mass (or, in other words, "fuel") recharges or introduce a jump jet firing delay, since some time is needed to heat the air from atmospheric to the required temperature.

I would also consider adding internal leg structure damage when falling from sufficient height. This would force jump jet users to conserve a part of their reaction mass in order to execute a "soft" landing, instead of just falling from their maximum jump height as the current leg armor damage is negligible even when falling from high distances.

My last suggestion involves nerfing the recovery time (time interval which is needed to begin accelerating after landing, which is currently pretty much non existent, since you can begin to accelerate at the exact moment of landing) of a mech when landing. Recovery time should be based on how "softly" the mech landed, with increased recovery times being associated with hard landings and reduced ones with softer ones, when some part of reaction mass was conserved and used for landing. I would even go as far as adding chance based knockdowns after some harder landings.

Edited by Leimrey, 25 February 2013 - 09:33 AM.