39 replies to this topic

[Stoicblitzer]

Vulix, on 22 February 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

I think the problem is more so that 1v1 against any other light a 3L will almost always win

seems like he is saying without lagshield the 3L can be hit much easier so maybe a good TDK pilot could kill a 3L after state-rewind.

[Lonestar1771]

**** would be easier to hit if convergence wasn't so borked you see two weapons in the same place shooting in two different directions.

[Noth]

Stoicblitzer, on 22 February 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

seems like he is saying without lagshield the 3L can be hit much easier so maybe a good TDK pilot could kill a 3L after state-rewind.

And again, that ignores the fact that even with state rewind the 3L will be the absolute best light. State rewind effects all lights, not just the 3L. There is something else in the 3L that makes it so good, I won't say what because i don't want this to turn into another one of those threads though.

[Darkside7777]

I got up to 17th on the light leader boards before I had to call it quits for the night. I've been piloting a Jenner D all night, Raven 3L's get torn up by dual SRM4s and 4 MLAS. Very winnable fight, especially considering most 3L pilots are so used to winning with pure ECM and SSRM cheese they aren't a very good shot with their lasers.

[Red squirrel]

J4ckInthebox, on 22 February 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

tldr lol, but it is spelled "et voilà", not "E voilá"

Thanks, my french is crappy....but you know .... Canada and so I thought it would fit

[Red squirrel]

Bryan Ekman, on 22 February 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Before we do anything to the 3Ls we are waiting for state rewind to come in. 3L's will be a lot less desirable when you can't hide behind lag shields.

Thanks for the answer,

although the game has definitely improved, sometime lag shields are still annoying.
But I think that the main problem about the 3L and 2D is that they extinct the
other variants and other light chassis.
Just remember how many Jenners used to run around. Now the Jenner is a rare sight.
I still like to use my founder Jenner, but when I meet a 2D or 3L while scouting away from my
team I usually get insta-trashed by SSRMs while mine dont work.

Sure I can adapt and not scout with non ECM lights. I can adapt and use my own 3L and 2D.
But I think it is sad that we lose variety in the game.

Possible solutions to this:
1) Give ECM to all lights
or
2) Give ECM to those which are not the craziest missile boats
or
3) Let ECM affact targeting of the mech that carries it
or
4) Give SSRMs a more realistic turning rate, so you have at least to look into the direction of the mech you try to hit.

Edited by Red squirrel, 23 February 2013 - 01:31 AM.

[Red squirrel]

Darkside7777, on 22 February 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

I got up to 17th on the light leader boards before I had to call it quits for the night. I've been piloting a Jenner D all night, Raven 3L's get torn up by dual SRM4s and 4 MLAS. Very winnable fight, especially considering most 3L pilots are so used to winning with pure ECM and SSRM cheese they aren't a very good shot with their lasers.

Now that is encouraging. But do you think you would perform as well against equally skilled pilots in a 3L?

Lukoi, on 22 February 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

How do you see your points?

just log in and go to the tournament page .... and your score will be shown at the bottom of the list if you do not make it into the Top 25

[Galenit]

Red squirrel, on 23 February 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

Possible solutions to this:
1) Give ECM to all lights
or
2) Give ECM to those which are not the craziest missile boats
or
3) Let ECM affact targeting of the mech that carries it
or
4) Give SSRMs a more realistic turning rate, so you have at least to look into the direction of the mech you try to hit.

As a ravenpilot myself i wrote this month ago in a "why use another light then a jenner" thread (it was a time where i see another raven in 1 out of 20 or more matches:
Jenner = light assault
Raven = Electronics
Commando = Harasser and City-Combat

Spider = wasnt out at this time

That takes out 1 and 2 of your solutions, will break canon and i think a jenner with jj, 4ml and 2ssrm2 is something you dont want i you dont like the 2-3ml 2 ssrm raven without jj.
3 seems possible but must be implemented right, maybe lockontime for all weapons will be increased by 25-50% through ecm.
4 Should be done anyway

5 ARTEMIS should not reduce lockon for ssrm

[Red squirrel]

Galenit, on 23 February 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

As a ravenpilot myself i wrote this month ago in a "why use another light then a jenner" thread (it was a time where i see another raven in 1 out of 20 or more matches:
Jenner = light assault
Raven = Electronics
Commando = Harasser and City-Combat

Spider = wasnt out at this time

That takes out 1 and 2 of your solutions, will break canon and i think a jenner with jj, 4ml and 2ssrm2 is something you dont want i you dont like the 2-3ml 2 ssrm raven without jj.
3 seems possible but must be implemented right, maybe lockontime for all weapons will be increased by 25-50% through ecm.
4 Should be done anyway

5 ARTEMIS should not reduce lockon for ssrm

I like suggestion 2 very much:
Why not give the ECM to the Raven 2X and the Commando 1B
Instead of the 3L and 2D. The problem IMHO really is the combination of the current ECM and Streak boating.


(Please dont start to argue about canon because the current ECM is so non-canon)

Tichorius Davion, on 22 February 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

I lost a game and got 2 points. I don't understand.

This is probably just an effect of rounding because the Score is shown as an Integer value.

[Galenit]

Red squirrel, on 23 February 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

(Please dont start to argue about canon because the current ECM is so non-canon)

Would like when its made canon: Reduce enemy radar range, increase lockontime

[Oni Ralas]

I fight. I fight and fight the urge to use lights because I don't want to be "one of those guys" -- but if the mechanics aren't going to change soon, I may have to. It's just getting crazy out there.

[Gamgee]

Darkside7777, on 22 February 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

I got up to 17th on the light leader boards before I had to call it quits for the night. I've been piloting a Jenner D all night, Raven 3L's get torn up by dual SRM4s and 4 MLAS. Very winnable fight, especially considering most 3L pilots are so used to winning with pure ECM and SSRM cheese they aren't a very good shot with their lasers.

I concur, if I hadn't been getting **** team members I could have climbed the ranks. But I was lucky to get people to not shoot me in the back let alone stand any sort of chance of knowing how to play the game. I managed to climb to 34th-26th and stay in that range consistently with the Jenner-D, same loadout as you.

[Cpt Leprechaun]

Red squirrel, on 22 February 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

I think this event is more about getting everyone to drop as a lone wolf in order to balance the elo system.


For me it is much more interesting to get an idea how balanced the weight classes are.
And as I (and many others) expected lights seem pretty overpowered.
Of course in the end we dont exactly know how the score is calculated but the tendency is obvious.

1) Heavies and Mediums seem very balanced
2) ECM SSRM lights rule the field.
3) Assaults are a bit stronger than the 40-75ton mechs (probably a mixture of D-DC ECMs and difficult to hit Stalker CT hitboxes)


Would be nice to see scores for different mechs - or to get a post from one of the pilots on top of the list what they've been playing.




It's just an approximation based on the public leaderboard - thanks for the input.
But at the end of the day the picture is the same if you assume 0-3 points per match.
The light chassis generates more points.

I have been playing a raven 3L and I can tell you that every person that I have seen on the board in game is doing the same your assumptions are correct.

my post on the matter
http://mwomercs.com/...nament-scoring/

Edited by Cpt Leprechaun, 23 February 2013 - 07:52 AM.

[HRR Insanity]

Bryan Ekman, on 22 February 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Before we do anything to the 3Ls we are waiting for state rewind to come in. 3L's will be a lot less desirable when you can't hide behind lag shields.

No, they won't. You, and your balance team, clearly have minimal actual game experience.

[HRR Insanity]

Thontor, on 23 February 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

considering they have most likely actually played against a non lag shielded RVN-3L in house... i assume Bryan knows what he's talking about.

not only that, they actually have, you know, the actual data on how well people are doing, overall, in the RVN-3L and everything else... so they can see the big picture much clearer than you can.

Other lights also benefit (slightly) from lag shields.

Decreasing the amount of lag will not change the balance between the 3L and other lights.

PS: I ping 8-10ms to the server. I always play against non-lag shielded 'Mechs.

Edited by HRR Insanity, 23 February 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Vulix, on 22 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

If I pilot a Raven 3L and encounter another light mech, one of two scenarios happens:

If the enemy light mech has ECM, I such to counter and use my Streaks and energy weapons to circle strafe my opponent to death. Spiders have no missiles and are thus screwed by my streaks, while commandos have less armor and will die quicker. My only equal fight is with another ECM Raven.

If my enemy has no ECM, like a Jenner, I just keep my ECM to shut down their streaks and dance around to avoid their other weapons while I launch auto-aimed missiles at them.

It's not a lag issue, it's the Raven-3L itself

It is that LAg Shield, Streak and ECM imbalance all converge on the Raven 3L. No other mech can combine these features into one. "Nerfing" the Ravel means removing lag, rebalncing Streaks (my simple approach - lower their rate of fire) and ECM (I dunno what would really be a good idea. Maybe just making ECM create a 50 % chance for each locked missile to simply lose its target and veer off course, and allowing NARC and TAG to lower this chance. Never use absolutes. Ever. ).

[Faolan65]

Was there a total given of how many pilots in each class?

[Chrithu]

Red squirrel, on 22 February 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I'm just a curious squirrel, so I came up with this.

The Score in the Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault rank depends on a lot of unknown variables.
What I could determine from the leaderboard is that you can get between 1 and 2 points per match. At the time I checked the numbers there are a few players that got exactly 1 or 2 points per match. All others were in between.

So what does that tell us?
First I believe this means that if you are a super crappy player but play much more games than everyone else you end up on top of the board. But then who cares about that.

So what interesting facts can we get from this?
It'ts very interesting to compare how many points the different weight classes get per match.
So I calculated average number of points per match - 1 ( -1 because 1 seems to be the minimum score per match).

Et voilà:
Assaults: 0.384
Heavies: 0.309
Mediums: 0.324
Lights: 0.681

So we see that the 3 heavier weight classes perform quite similar with Assaults getting some more points. Interesting is also that Mediums seem to generate more points than Heavies but not really much.
But then the lights! wow they seem to get a twice as good rating per game.
That menas more assists more kills less deaths. For me this is an indicator for ECM Raven madness.

okay going to sleep now .... getting slowly crazy posting stuff like this.

Sorry to bust your dreams:

My rank in Heavy was #204. I had 83 points scored in 47 wins and 53 losses. So my average gain per match was 0.83 points. So clearly you could score less than one point in a match.

[Khobai]

Quote

3) Assaults are a bit stronger than the 40-75ton mechs (probably a mixture of D-DC ECMs and difficult to hit Stalker CT hitboxes)

Which is why capture game modes exist. So faster mechs have an advantage over Assaults. And on Alpine conquest, I would even go so far as to say assaults are almost entirely useless because of their inability to travel between nodes quickly.

[xhrit]

Vulix, on 22 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

If I pilot a Raven 3L and encounter another light mech, one of two scenarios happens:

If the enemy light mech has ECM, I such to counter and use my Streaks and energy weapons to circle strafe my opponent to death. Spiders have no missiles and are thus screwed by my streaks, while commandos have less armor and will die quicker. My only equal fight is with another ECM Raven.

If my enemy has no ECM, like a Jenner, I just keep my ECM to shut down their streaks and dance around to avoid their other weapons while I launch auto-aimed missiles at them.

It's not a lag issue, it's the Raven-3L itself

I agree. they should give ECM to all light mechs...