124 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

The game isn't hard on casuals.

Its hard on bads, and newplayers.

[Noobzorz]

I am a brand new player. I played MW2 ages ago when it first came out, MW3, MW4 etc. I think I can reasonably accused of being a hardcore gamer. I did Molten Core back before they noobified WoW, I've cleared Dark Souls on New Game+ 2, I got the "Seriously. . ." achievement in Gears of War, I was Diamond League in StarCraft for the entire time I played it (this was before they had master), I came 7th in a WarCraft III: TFT Tournament once (as in the ones on Battle.Net with tens of thousand of players), and I have no ******* idea what is going on in this game or what it's about.

Yes, I know it's mechwarrior, yes, I know you're not supposed to jump in, but now that the community has been established and people get it, this game is about as noob friendly as CS 1.6, and that is not ok.

Yeah, yeah, "RTFM." First, I did; they are poorly made and do not convey useful information to players who are new to MWO, but not new to games. Second, what planet do you think you are on? This is 2013. In a decade where a game like DOTA 2 can give me enough information to go 7-2 as a support class in my first game, "RTFM" is a totally unacceptable defense of game obtuseness.

A game this well made is going to waste without proper introductory measures. I am sure things will improve as the beta goes on, but it is totally unreasonable to expect new players to navigate through the website to watch a bunch of unhelpful videos so they can go get decimated in their first 20 games.

Edited by Noobzorz, 28 February 2013 - 11:44 AM.

[Kylere]

MWO at this point is easy enough, there could be a tutorial or ingame testing environment but if you need it easier this is just not the right game for you.

No shame in that, not every game is for everyone. I puke thinking of lame games like LoL and WoW but they have followers who are rabid.

[roguetrdr]

Haters gona hate

[Void2258]

I tried to introduce a friend of mine to the game. After playing five matches, he got extremely frustrated. It wasn't the players or the ECM or anything. With me talking to him in skype in the middle of a battle, he just couldn't figure out what was going on. Watching the videos was useless to him.

He declared he was done with the game until there was an in-game tutorial.

[Yokaiko]

Scientific mind that one. Eh?

[StalaggtIKE]

Battlecruiser, on 23 February 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

its not hard on new players, only players that want to do what they want to do and not what works. I tried so hard to be creative when i came back, but nothing i come up with is as viable as bland, boring cookie cutter builds. most of the problems that exist are because all maps but alpine encourage close range weapons only.

I would say that this is a huge problem; the replay value is bad. And that's saying a lot for a multiplayer game. What keeps me coming back is, diversity. Allow me to be creative. Instead like you say one must stick with the cookie cutter builds. After mastering those, what am I doing here?

[Ngamok]

Boydsan, on 22 February 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

I got bored of playing MWO and stopped playing when it went open beta and a few days past the last reset.

I decided to come back and play "Giant Robots" and now, I realized... I have almost no exp, no money, a few MCs, and worse of all... not enough EXP to get many of the top level skills. Then I started playing, and noticed ECM Ravens, ECM Spiders, ECM Atlas. I have a founder's Catapult and 2 other cats... now I find it almost impossible to level up my C1 Cat because I can not target anything even when I am looking at it.

-- What is preventing you from shooting at something you cannot target? Are you all SSRM and LRM? Lasers and Ballistics will still hit them. As far as not having enough EXP for the top tier skills, that comes with playing the game. That is not a fault of the game.

Then it hit me, that is why so many NEW players ge frustrated. They have to go up a huge hill to even compete against so much ECM and people who have modules. Then I started playing the new domination type game - conquest - and realized I get fewer points doing the objectives than killing. Even after winning, I noticed I got LESS points than some of the people on the losing team - but yet I was the person on my team capping everything.

-- Good thing you were capping and everyone else was playing TDM

So I decided to go big or go home. I popped into my Founder's Atlas and kill people for some badly needed c-bills and exp. I have been thinking of using up some of my MC to buy a mech and sell it for c-bills. I guess I should be lucky repairs are no longer there. Anyhow, my team and I are doing good. I score 3 kills and got assists on 2 others. We lost two 'mechs a raven and commando. The enemy team has only 1 'mech left and before we know it we notice that our base is under attack... and within moments the 'mech has the module to increase the capture rate of enemy (our) base. POOF we lose...

-- Happens.

Lastly, I work and can get days off if I plan it in advance. With less than a day (maybe 2 days worth of notice) we are notified about this event... OUT OF NO WHERE.

-- Events shouldn't run your life. If you have time, you run them, not take days off from work to play games. Your sense of what is important is a little out of whack. I hope if I ran a company, you'd never apply.


Even in games like (I hate saying this) Call of Duty - newplayers can get pre-made set ups (perks and advanced weapons) or customize their own loadout. Right now, no new player can easily get to a module.

-- In CoD, the pre-made set ups are previews of things you can unlock later. Most of the time, the weapon perks and secondary weapons don't mesh as nice. Usually 1 of the 5 setups is decent.

Responses are in the quote. i don't see the problem.

[HotDoggin]

First game I said "I'm new, hold my hand"

First guy said "stay with the pack"
Other guy said "GG"

lol

[Ngamok]

blazarian, on 23 February 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

I didn't get the Alpine Release PRIOR to availability of 12 vs 12 mode or any new gamemode that would make sense in a big map (point defences, mecbays.. something that makes sense to play a big map and walk all day).

So you are saying that the 12v12 should have come out first instead of the larger map. Why? If you don't play in a 12v12, what does Alpine have to do with it. You'd still get it in a 8v8. Or are you saying that all games should be 12v12 in the future and then Alpine would make sense?

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Mechwarrior has no room for casuals.
This isnt angry birds, this is a PC game about building and battling huge mechs, and in theory using communication, knowledge of the game, and teamwork to win.

so.

[Ngamok]

Void2258, on 28 February 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

I tried to introduce a friend of mine to the game. After playing five matches, he got extremely frustrated. It wasn't the players or the ECM or anything. With me talking to him in skype in the middle of a battle, he just couldn't figure out what was going on. Watching the videos was useless to him.

He declared he was done with the game until there was an in-game tutorial.

Because I turned 2 friends onto this game and they got how to play it effectively in two days and are now killing people left and right. Maybe your friend needs to learn to expand his horizons. Not saying this in a bad way. Both my friends that started were good at FPS games like me.

StalaggtIKE, on 28 February 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

I would say that this is a huge problem; the replay value is bad. And that's saying a lot for a multiplayer game. What keeps me coming back is, diversity. Allow me to be creative. Instead like you say one must stick with the cookie cutter builds. After mastering those, what am I doing here?

No, don't play cookier cutter builds. You can be good at any build that suits you. The diversity is there.

[Denno]

I strongly believe there should be some sort of in-game tutorial and I would be astonished if the vast majority of the player base didnt agree. At the very least we need a basic static map where new folks can run around and shoot targets (alone or with friends, with no rewards and no penalties).

Having said that, the npe is a bit more dealable now, particularly with the added cbill bonus. I would only use the phrase "too hard" on say....EVE Online 5-6 years ago. It was pretty ridiculous at one time but, like in anything else, persistance pays off.

[Roughneck45]

Yokaiko, on 23 February 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

The game isn't hard on casuals.

Its hard on bads, and newplayers.

Yup.

They just need a proper tutorial. ELO is also helping.

[StalaggtIKE]

Ngamok, on 28 February 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

No, don't play cookier cutter builds. You can be good at any build that suits you. The diversity is there.

Right..., LRM 5, MG, flame, SDR-5K, CDA-3C, DRG-5N and AS7-K.

[Toxik]

As a new player (started 2 weeks ago) I do not think the game is hard on new player. Yes the trial mech sucks, they do even more when you know the game a little but you only have to suffer 10-20 matches and you can then buy your mech.
As I did not know what would be a good mech I did some research here and bought a Hunchback 4SP which I am really happy about.
I guess as an older gamer I might get my search-fu on and look for advice when the new generation of gamer expected every single game to spoon feed them how the game work, for me part of the pleasure is in that. Essential are missing, training mod, some options (mouse sensitivity, fov) but it is still beta and training ground are coming... So not too bad.
The other problem I guess is expectation, the TTK is really high in this game (and it should be) so the BF3 player and CoD kid coming here and rushing to get the killzzz will get their ***** red hot and might drop the game. I say let them, if they want instant gratification this game is probably not be for them.

[One Medic Army]

Yeah, ignore everyone who's spouting "just leave", "isn't for you", and "not for casuals".

The game needs a tutorial, it's getting one coming fairly soon (I think it was planned for March?).

Some people around (most notably on the TS servers) are willing to take some time to help new players, it's not all sink or swim.

[Carrion Hound]

Have almost all of them unlocked, I own.. probably three, and they get moved around my mechs frequently. Now I am just looking at stuff to sink my XP into without buying a new mech, or something.

[Noobzorz]

Kylere, on 28 February 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

MWO at this point is easy enough, there could be a tutorial or ingame testing environment but if you need it easier this is just not the right game for you.

No shame in that, not every game is for everyone. I puke thinking of lame games like LoL and WoW but they have followers who are rabid.

You're right. There is no shame in that. What is shameful is your ****** little post that implies that these players are noobs and not fit to play mechwarrior (I presume you're not quite shameless enough to pretend otherwise, but if you post a defense, save it; any forum veteran has seen those words a thousand times and knows exactly what they really mean), when in fact the game is not functional in this regard, and highly insular. If I were to do the same thing back to you, I'd propose it's not your fault you're a snide, sneering, and venial jerk with ****** typography, you're just a product of your environment. Hurrhurr.

So let's be clear about this: LoL and WoW might not be good games (or at least not anymore), but their approach to new players strictly dominates the one in MWO. That is, it is flat out superior for everyone, in every case. MWO does not communicate it's purpose well. Period. New players have about fifty different things to get the hang of even BEFORE you consider that elimination style games are inherently difficult to break in to, because you get so little opportunity to practice approaches each game (i.e. you get one). Picking this up is like picking up CS 1.6. You've really got to want to be here.

A strong tutorial is mandatory if you want this community to keep growing. Because I want to focus my efforts on figuring out the timing on an enemy raven coming around that ridge and flanking instead of trying to determine if my PPC has a minimum range or not. If what everyone is saying about having to suffer 10-20 matches before you can really play is true, then I will tell you this: most players aren't going to have our patience, and this game is going to hit a wall a month after release.

Edited by Noobzorz, 28 February 2013 - 12:31 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

One Medic Army, on 28 February 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

Yeah, ignore everyone who's spouting "just leave", "isn't for you", and "not for casuals".

The game needs a tutorial, it's getting one coming fairly soon (I think it was planned for March?).

Some people around (most notably on the TS servers) are willing to take some time to help new players, it's not all sink or swim.

I agree largely. Especially about the tutorial.

One must also remember though that not every single game out there can, nor should focus entirely or even heavily on casual players. There are already plenty of games that do focus on that, so having some, like MWO trying to set the bar a little higher is needed, also. But with that steeper learning curve, that intro tutorial is all the more needed. But too many people already want to dumb the game down to make it more FNG friendly, and I believe that is the wrong way to go. Not every game should be another CoD. Just add a PvE section for tutorial drops, like the old MW titles used to have.