52 replies to this topic

[Shumabot]

Redshift2k5, on 24 February 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I think it would instantly become '55 ton medium or go home', while three 50 tonners forces you to look at each 's individual strengths and weaknesses while they all share the same max tonnage.

The Dervish with four SRM6s, two MLAS, jumpjets, and a higher baseline speed than the Hunchback, and a solid +5 tons basically looks like it would become the defacto 'best' medium on the field. It also lacks three notably different variants.

Griffin lacks some of the issues since it has a much more stripped down loadout, but still comes a little weak on variants.

Kintaro, also low on variants, also weird looking.

There are plenty of mitigating factors, though it's hard to argue against quad SRM6 given how overpowered SRMs are. As a rule the lightest mech in its class is usually pretty poor in this game (and is true in every class), but generally there's a good mix at the top weight. Five tons makes remarkably little difference compared to weapon loadout and hitbox size.

[QuantumButler]

Shumabot, on 25 February 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

There are plenty of mitigating factors, though it's hard to argue against quad SRM6 given how overpowered SRMs are. As a rule the lightest mech in its class is usually pretty poor in this game (and is true in every class), but generally there's a good mix at the top weight. Five tons makes remarkably little difference compared to weapon loadout and hitbox size.

The Awesome is rubbish because of it's bad hitboxes and huge size, not just because it's only 80 tons, for example.

[Shumabot]

QuantumButler, on 25 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

The Awesome is rubbish because of it's bad hitboxes and huge size, not just because it's only 80 tons, for example.

The Awesome is rubbish because it's rubbish in every way compared to the other assaults. The atlas, for instance, has a quarter more than it's weight for weapons and armor, is barely slower, has better and better positioned hardpoints, has better spread hitboxes, and has an actual purpose. The stalker is smaller (the stalkers scale is such nonsense), can bring almost twice the effective armament, has vastly better hitboxes, is barely slower, and doesn't lose half its shot by shooting from the hip. 20 more tons could pull the awesome up, but it's got the dragon syndrome. It's too light for it's class, it's hitboxes and weapons are terrible, and it shoots everything from its waist so it cant take cover.

[QuantumButler]

Shumabot, on 25 February 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

The Awesome is rubbish because it's rubbish in every way compared to the other assaults. The atlas, for instance, has a quarter more than it's weight for weapons and armor, is barely slower, has better and better positioned hardpoints, has better spread hitboxes, and has an actual purpose. The stalker is smaller (the stalkers scale is such nonsense), can bring almost twice the effective armament, has vastly better hitboxes, is barely slower, and doesn't lose half its shot by shooting from the hip. 20 more tons could pull the awesome up, but it's got the dragon syndrome. It's too light for it's class, it's hitboxes and weapons are terrible, and it shoots everything from its waist so it cant take cover.

Yes, but if say, the awesome were the same weight, had the same hardpoints, but was less of a broad side of a barn hitbox wise, it would be infinitely better than it currently is.

It might still be kind of rubbish, but it would be much less rubbish. My point is the awesome is a mech that might otherwise be okay, ****** over by terrible size and hitbox profiles.

[Fiachdubh]

Lets not forget about the many 45 tonne mechs also. Whats with all the x5 tonne medium mech discrimination PGI?

[WolvesX]

The Dervish http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dervish

in for this one!

[Butane9000]

Well the current mediums both implemented and unimplemented are:

Cicada
Blackjack - announcement - concept art *
Hunchback
Trebuchet
Centurion

While a 55 tonner would be nice we are far more likely to see these mechs:

Sentinel - nice option if one doesn't like the Cicada, does have missile hardpoints.

Vindicator - Nice 45 ton jump jet brawler vs the 45 ton blackjacks direct fire support role.

Now the final 3rd medium (assuming each weight class gets 8 mechs) will probably be either the Crab, Hermes II (assuming the Hermes doesn't make it into the game as a light) or Whitworth.'

It's entirely possible we'll see a 55 tonner. I figure the devs have got at least 1 mech chosen. Most likely the Kintaro for it's variation and role.

* Not implemented in game yet

Edited by Butane9000, 25 February 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[Escef]

Voidsinger, on 25 February 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

I think people forget a cardinal rule in how PGI chooses mechs.

Must have 3 canon variants available in 3050.

That puts the Crab, Enforcer, Dervish and Kintaro out.

The model 18, 19, and 20 Kintaros would all work. Unfortunately, there'd be almost no difference between the model 18 and 19. The 19 would have ferro armor and 1 tube on its CT missile point, while the 18 would not and have 6 tubes.

But, yes, pedantry aside, must have 3 distinctly different variants. The Vindicator might work, as the base model and Avenging Angel are vastly different in engine and jump jet specs, if nothing else, and then there's the clan-era refit.

I think the best case is the Vulcan. We could also use the Chameleon, but I don't think most of the variants offer different enough hardpoints to justify it.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I still don't understand why everyone seems so deadset on using crappy mechs that no one cares about to fill out tonnage. Re-design the looks of the reseen/unseen and use them, or create a whole new mech.

Doesn't make sense to use a crappy 55 tonner just to have a 55 tonner when no one will use it.

[Nostram]

Budget cutbacks. The three mechs you mentioned are all more expensive than the others. In these hard economies one has to save where they can you know.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Nostram, on 25 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Budget cutbacks. The three mechs you mentioned are all more expensive than the others. In these hard economies one has to save where they can you know.

Huh?

[Escef]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 25 February 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

I still don't understand why everyone seems so deadset on using crappy mechs that no one cares about to fill out tonnage. Re-design the looks of the reseen/unseen and use them, or create a whole new mech.

Doesn't make sense to use a crappy 55 tonner just to have a 55 tonner when no one will use it.

To be fair, of the 3 55-tonners, only the Griffin was really as good as people think it was. However, with ACs being better in just about every MW game, the Shadowhawk and Wolverine might be worthwhile. I know you can recreate the Griffin on the Treb chassis, not sure about the others, I'd have to go check.

[Satan n stuff]

About the awesome being worse than the atlas, it plainly isn't. It's not designed to be a brawler and it will do just fine if you don't try to use it as one. All variants can do 61 without speed tweak and 67 with speed tweak while the fastest ones can do 85/90 with speed tweak. All variants are excellent for powerful alpha builds, and aside from the 8Q which can get the highest precision alpha they can all maintain a decent dps. Then there's the fact that an XL engine is completely pointless in most builds for the slower variants and the fact that most people aim for the right torso first, add that up and you'll find that you'll last quite a bit longer than you expect if you don't do anything stupid.