26 replies to this topic

[Sairai]

Hi there,

I have now my very first own mech (Atlas D-DC) and have some cbills to do the first modifications.

The first thing I wanted to try is to upgrade from med lasers to large lasers because of the higher dmg-output and the better range.

Now there are few things I want to know before I waste my cbills.

1. I read many times that dual heatsinks is a very nice upgrade. I played a bit in smurfy-nets mechlab and saw that those dual heatsinks take 3 slots and have only 1.4 times the effect of normal heatsinks. Did I missunderstand something there? Only seeing that numbers looks like they are not even half as effective then the normal heatsinks but I am sure that they are. Please bring some light in the dark.

2. Does it matter anyhow, where my heatsinks are fitted in or can I mount them where I have some free slots without caring anything else?

3. I have a Command Console fittet into my new shiny DDC and am not so sure if I realy need that. I might prefer the additional weight and the slot.
I read that it is somehow a backup cockpit-unit in case my primary is destroyed, but it has to be manned? *confused* It can also be used to talk as a commander in team-chat, is that right? I am totaly new to that game and for now that does not make sense for me.
Source: http://www.sarna.net...Command_Console


So that should do it for now. I thank you all in advance. This community helped me already realy nicely and I am thankful for that. Keep on going like that!

Greetings,
Sairai

[CmdrPoopyPants]

Command module: I don't think it serves any purpose currently. At least, I've not seen or heard anything suggesting it has any use, I removed mine from my D-DC for the space/weight.

Double heatsinks are 1.4 times more effective than normal heatsinks.. except the ones in your engine (you don't see them, but they are there).. those are 2 times more effective. You can see this in smurfy's tool by looking at your heat efficiency and clicking single/double back and forth and watching how much more efficient you are (just engine, each click removes other heatsinks in the loadout). They take up more slots but weigh the same.. so if you have heavy weapons you might have lots of room but not lots of weight. If you need to add 10 DHS, that's 30 slots (which you might have) and 10 tons.. if you needed the same heat dissipation on single heatsinks, you'd need to add 14 singles to match the 10 DHS addons, that's 14 tons instead of 10.. but then you'd also need to add 10 more singles to make up for the 10 in the engine, another 10 tons and 10 slots.. SO.. for single heatsinks you'd need 24 external added at 24 slots and 24 tons, versus 30 slots and 10 tons with DHS.

Basically, if you have the slots but not the weight, DHS are better -if- you are generating a lot of heat (energy weapons or fast ballistics like 4 AC/2s or something). The real help is the 2x in the engine for no weight gain, and on bigger engines where you have slots for heatsinks, the DHS still only count as 1 of those slots.. better and better.

And it doesn't matter where heatsinks go.. until parts start getting blown off your mech. Say you stack all your heatsinks in your left arm (singles, say 8 of them).. and it gets blown off. Now you're running with 8 less heatsinks, which is a problem. I tend to put them in the torsos first, arms last.. And DHS won't fit in legs or CT or head, singles of course, will.. part of the tradeoffs.

Edited by CmdrPoopyPants, 24 February 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Sairai]

Thank you CmdrPoopyPants, I saw now the better efficency I was looking for^^

Now my first try to build my own Atlas D-DC resulted in the following:
AS7-D-DC

Theese are my very first steps, so please give constructive critics but be nice, because I sure have plenty to learn and I want to learn. This is the main reason why I didnt simply take one of the builds already in the forums.

The advantages compared to the DDC out of the box should be:
- More dmg due to large lasers and better heat-efficiency
- better range also due to lasers
- cooler
- a bit more missiles to fire, because they went out more then once on alpine map for example
- maxed armor (because there is still some weight left)

And by the way, I never realy got used to those few short range missiles so I took them away.

I wondered already, if I could excange a bit armor and the third DHS for Anti-Missile-System and its ammo. Perhaps you can tell me.

Those Heatsinks in both arms got in there because I thought: Loosing my arm = loosing one large laser = less heat produced = no need for that additional heatsink anymore.
Maybe you can teach me better?

~ Sairai

Edited by Sairai, 24 February 2013 - 01:18 PM.

[IceSerpent]

Sairai, on 24 February 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

Now my first try to build my own Atlas D-DC resulted in the following:
AS7-D-DC

Theese are my very first steps, so please give constructive critics but be nice, because I sure have plenty to learn and I want to learn. This is the main reason why I didnt simply take one of the builds already in the forums.

A few ideas:

- make sure you put ECM on that D-DC.
- I would move ammo into the legs, it's much safer this way

[Hebdomas]

You will want ECM. With it I don't really think there's a point to having AMS.

If you're looking for range you might want to try ER large lasers, longer range but run a bit hotter.

If you're planning to stay at range you may want to change out the AC/20. It's a close range weapon (270m), you could try and fit a gauss in there for longer range, but if it blows up you're going to be in trouble. You could also try an Ultra AC/5 (600m) if you don't like the gauss. Though with the speed of an Atlas you can't really dictate the range of the enemy and can wind up in a brawl where the ac/20 can be useful, so you might want to keep it.

[kevin roshak]

From what I see you have a wide set of ranges in your Atlas. I would go with something like this if you want to keep the AC20 and be more of a close range support mech (Brawler). http://mwo.smurfy-ne...39edbf0b62fc15d This gives you the range of the LL, you can upgrade them to ERLL for the extra range if you feel you need it, and then the AC20 and the triple SRM6 gives you plenty of staying power up close and you can still weave in some LL blasts if you need them.

I am not good at long range so I cant really help you there, but you always want plenty of ammo with an atlas, you can take a lot of punishment so more ammo = more useful life

[CmdrPoopyPants]

Sairai, correct thinking about the lasers/DHS in the arm. Not to mention, you don't always have a choice

I haven't looked at the build, but remember that Alpine isn't the only map, and Atlai often have no choice but to brawl.. kind of what they're made for, as opposed to long range fighting. I know it sucks, but Alpine is just painful for Atlai.. setting up for Alpine hoses you on other maps.

As other have noted, it's a shame and waste not to have ECM on mechs that can carry it, you're wasting lots of potential and protection for anyone that would trudge along with you. I don't have AMS on my Atlas and I don't miss it since I have ECM.

Here's what I run on my D-DC: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f5bf394a6fcd8ec ... if you remove the medium lasers, you see that my DPS is quite high and I'm pretty efficient cooling wise, the lasers are there for when SRMs or the UAC/5s get destroyed, otherwise I don't generally use them. I'm pretty happy with that setup when the UAC/5s aren't jammed

I'll look at your fit in a little bit, need to get some errands/chores done.

[Jim Dean]

CmdrPoopyPants, on 24 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

And it doesn't matter where heatsinks go.. until parts start getting blown off your mech. Say you stack all your heatsinks in your left arm (singles, say 8 of them).. and it gets blown off. Now you're running with 8 less heatsinks, which is a problem. I tend to put them in the torsos first, arms last.. And DHS won't fit in legs or CT or head, singles of course, will.. part of the tradeoffs.

For the most part it doesn't matter where they are. If you check the Breakdown thread in the Command Chair section there are details on this. The environment will cool off your mech faster, for instance, standing with your legs 60% immersed in water will grant the leg heat sinks a 60% cooling bonus if you have sinks there. So there is that to consider, but i'm assuming you're not planning on building based around standing in water.

Edited by Jim Dean, 24 February 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[CmdrPoopyPants]

The others are correct, you definately want to move that ammo. It can explode, and ammo does a LOT of damage which keeps passing up into the mech until it's all accounted for. If it starts at the side torso, the next location is center torso.. bad things happen when ammo pops. If you put it in your legs.. well, first, most people don't bother trying to leg an atlas. Second, the damage moves up from the legs to the side torso, then finally the center torso.. not that you want to blow off your sides, but that's better than an ammo explosion starting there.. Also note that in my build, I have a c.a.s.e. in there.. that -stops ammo explosion damage from spreading-... it's a matter of having slots and finding tonnage, but that's the only way I can manage enough ammo for protracted fights, so I put the case in there should that side get hammered early in a fight.

Jim Dean, I thought I read that water only affects standard heatsinks, not doubles. Not that you can get doubles in legs, but what if the mech.. say a commando, is 90% under water like parts of Forest City? .. I've not noticed that DHS cooling is any faster when I'm submerged (and I only run DHS builds for the most part).

[Jim Dean]

CmdrPoopyPants, on 24 February 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Jim Dean, I thought I read that water only affects standard heatsinks, not doubles. Not that you can get doubles in legs, but what if the mech.. say a commando, is 90% under water like parts of Forest City? .. I've not noticed that DHS cooling is any faster when I'm submerged (and I only run DHS builds for the most part).

I can't really say I have an answer from you, but as far as I can tell from the Breakdown post the effect applies to all heatsinks. It does mention steam coming off of components containing HS, and I've seen steam come off the front of my Stalker 3f before, and I run DHS on that guy, but I just don't know.

Edited by Jim Dean, 24 February 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[Koshirou]

Sairai, on 24 February 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

Thank you CmdrPoopyPants, I saw now the better efficency I was looking for^^

Now my first try to build my own Atlas D-DC resulted in the following:
AS7-D-DC

I see you still have 3.81 tons left. I'd recommend replacing the AC/20 and Ammo, and the DHS in the left Torso with
- Either 1 Gauss Rifle, ECM, 3 tons of Gauss ammo, and 1 extra ton of LRM ammo.
- Or 1 Gauss Rifle, ECM, 3 tons of Gauss ammo and CASE in both side torsos.

If you shave off some armor from the legs, increasing the free tonnage to 4:
- 1 Gauss Rifle, ECM, 3 tons of Gauss ammo, CASE in the RT only, and 1 extra ton of LRM ammo, moving all LRM ammo to the legs.

The AC/20 is an impressive weapon, but the Gauss fits better with your range profile. In addition, it has a better critical slot/tonnage relation (uses 7 slots as opposed to the AC/20s 10) which leaves you with more options.

EDIT: Small miscalculation.

Edited by Koshirou, 25 February 2013 - 06:12 AM.

[Seth]

The double heat sink upgrade is almost always worth the investment. I would suggest keeping single heat sinks only if your build is already very cool running or if your greatest weapon limiting factor is critical spaces. Additionally, the double heat sinks built into each engine work at 2X the efficiency of standard ones rather than just 1.4X like doubles that you add after the fact. For more reading, check here: mwowiki.org/wiki/Heat_sinks.

The command console doesn't do anything quiet yet.

[Koshirou]

Here is the last variation I mentioned: 2 LLs, Gauss, 2 LRM 15, ECM. Should be fearsome at long range, but needs support by others up close. Then again, as an AS7-D-DC with ECM, your team mates will flock to you.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2a3fd5a51b1447

Edited by Koshirou, 25 February 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[Sairai]

Thank you realy much for your tips!

I tried to follow your hints and ended up with a mech that looks pretty the same like the build from Koshirou, with some minor changes that I think, could make sense.

AS7-D-DC v2

I took a little armor away and added 1 mashine gun + 1t ammo. Many said, my mech would be fittet for long range, but when I didnt get everything wrong, then I can use all weapons except LRM also perfectly on very short range. Why not add some additional non-heat dps then? What do you think?

Well may be I need that additional DHS more then this mashine gun but this will be learned by doing then.

Edited by Sairai, 25 February 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[kevin roshak]

I feel a single machine gun by itself is not going to help very much.
I would up the armor on the legs, and add another ton of gauss ammo
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8e4b67a6c263168

or if you are afraid of the gauss explosion you can go with Koshirus build and just move a few things around
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...84c764bb715fe43
i like heatsinks in the torso rather than the arm because you will generally loose them later in a fight. (If you loose a side torso you loose the arm and all heatsinks in both places, but if you loose a arm your torso will be there still, along with the heatsinks)

if you feel the mech is too slow, even for a direct fire support mech you can go with this and keep the same loadout, just be a bit more careful with heat
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f8272d4bae118e4

Edited by kevin roshak, 25 February 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[Sairai]

Does CASE realy prevent me from Gauss Explosion dmg? Does Gauss Explosion dmg also spread to other parts?
I only read that it prevents ammo-explosion-dmg from spreading.


Heatsinks in the arms should be ok, since loosing an arm means, no need for that heatsink anymore because I also loose my primary heat source.

Edited by Sairai, 25 February 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[muskrat]

Salute Sairai,

First I dont pilot Assualts, but if I was looking for a D-DC "LONG RANGE"
I would build this,
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1a72d089b1c3a8f


Bow
Muskrat

Edited by muskrat, 25 February 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Nihils]

Yeah single MG is only good to link up with like small lasers or medium pulse.. Well any laser you plan on using a lot close up. This Atlas build I think is better off with armor ammo or heat sinkage than an MG.

[Gothbloodman]

CASE prevents it from spreading outside of the area, but does not prevent the damage.

I agree with others; if you are in D-DC, you probably want ECM (unless you like being a rebel!) and you do not need AMS.

Back to your build questions, I think you need to ask yourself what ROLE you are playing. The mix of large lasers (long range), LRMs (long range) and AC20 (short range) may be in conflict.

If you like engaging at long ranges, you should probably swap that AC20 with something smaller (and with more range).

Last, Assault Mechs are usually the only mechs who do not necessarily need DHS'. This is because they have so much tonnage to play with, that it may make more sense to throw in a lot of single sinks instead...

[kevin roshak]

Sairai, on 25 February 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Does CASE realy prevent me from Gauss Explosion dmg? Does Gauss Explosion dmg also spread to other parts?
I only read that it prevents ammo-explosion-dmg from spreading.


Heatsinks in the arms should be ok, since loosing an arm means, no need for that heatsink anymore because I also loose my primary heat source.

It keeps it from spreading to the center torso and doing serious damage to the CT, and possibly destroying you in the process.
With CASE if your gauss is destoryed it will take more than likely take out your right torso and by extension your right arm, but it will stop the extra 'left over' damage from spreading in, towards your CT