85 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Damn you medic. I gave u props once for personally observing you win a 3v1 in your hunch, and this is how you repay me? Coming in here with your good arguemnts.

To that I say, I do not run light mechs, now will I ever. I wasnt a light tank driver in wot, nor am i a light mech driver here. Thats not my style.

But your right about teh ddc, its abest brawler. That i have jsut a little more cooling than the next ddc has won me most 1v1 atlas fights ive had this weekend, when they pwr down after a few exchanges, i focus the head and alpha. Seems to work.

Heres my counter question? Does that make my points wrong?

Really all I want about ecm, is the prevention of missle warrior online, but thats in a diff thread, and does not relate to the op here.

Anything to add here? As it relates to Elaine?

Nope, just wanted to point that out.

The current matchmaker does a few things to annoy me, but for the most part tonnage imbalances don't bother me.

That said I'm no longer ever going to run a medium in any of my groups since I'm a bit tired of the enemy having ECM lights and more assaults whereas I'm the lightest thing on my team in a trebuchet.
I'll just run a Jenner, Stalker, or Cataphract instead.

Last match I played tonight:
My team: AS7 D-DC, AS7-RS, AS7-D, STK-3F, CTF-2X, CTF-3D, CTF-2X, TBT-7M
Enemy: AS7-D, AS7-D, AS7-RS, STK-5S, STK-3F, ILYA-MURO, SDR-5D, COM-2D

Friendly team was distracted by a couple of nigh invulnerable flies buzzing around, and their LRMs and sniper fire tore us apart with the spotting help they had.

Edited by One Medic Army, 24 February 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[K1ng Ghidorah]

I'm pretty sure most people have had these types of games before. I know I have. It's just the nature of Elo.

And if you don't want to use ECM on your Atlas, just say so 'cause I don't want to'. The 'extra cooling' excuse is pretty flimsy. That ONE heatsink is NOT going to make anywhere near enough of a difference for you to deny your team of ECM coverage.

[p4r4g0n]

Based on analysis of some of my own matches, the issue appears to be with the match maker's parameters in creating a team and / or matchup.

The Elo rating is just a number indicating presumed skill / experience level. What the match maker does with the numbers is what is creating some of the reported mixed bag teams other have posted about.

This is not an indication of inflated / deflated Elo rating due to running in groups.

PGI needs to look into this a little closer and perhaps re-think some of the MM's parameters.

[Hedonism Robot]

Wait, wait you have an atlas DDC and do not equip it with a ECM yet run 3 srm 6, 2 ll and an ac 20? What are you spending the tonnage on??

[SlXSlXSlX]

2, i shaved 1/2 ton off the legs. No one legs an atlas. So thats 2 more heatsinks, and it helps im always on the cuspt of overheating as it is. I am pretty liberal with my volleys.

No the leg work was tank girl. When they all collapsed on us it was him/her they focused on at first. I took a beating, but intially I was not the main target. I finished all the asslts, and they all took alot of dmg from me. I then had to chase down 2 more mechs, and kept losing weapons and ammo from dmg. I started w 2 LL, 1 ac20, 3 srm6, and ended w no ammo, and 1 LL. My last LL, got the last kill, and i was hanging on by a thread my back and front CT were red red, and stripped.

But im sure you all think I made it up, and blah blah. The point was, heres an example of why elo is good, and going back to no elo, is bad. I actualy had another game jsut like this a few amtches later. By luck, lightning struck twice in one day, I still think i am not that good. There is a chance im improvin though.

Anyways, hate on Elaine all you want. Shes a good system, and makes for much better matches than than prior to implementation.

Hedonism Robot, on 24 February 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Wait, wait you have an atlas DDC and do not equip it with a ECM yet run 3 srm 6, 2 ll and an ac 20? What are you spending the tonnage on??

standard engine, 300, max armor minus the half ton off the legs, and the rest on DHS, my heat eff is 133 i think. its a nice build. I have 3 ton ac20, 2 ton srm. No ams. And id add endo steel of feros fibros, but im slot shy i think. At first it was a poor mans build, but w DHS, its a good build.

I logged out for bed bc mechers gotta work too, but tomorrow i can sign in and give you the recipe. We should all run em, and say no to ecm. If you let the QQers win, it will be missle warrior online again. Dont let that happen.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 24 February 2013 - 11:05 PM.

[Zakie Chan]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

2, i shaved 1/2 ton off the legs. No one legs an atlas. So thats 2 more heatsinks, and it helps im always on the cuspt of overheating as it is. I am pretty liberal with my volleys.

You miser... All my atlas builds come down to 25-31 leg armour! Unless I get ravaged by johnny clumsypants at the start, I never get legged.

[SlXSlXSlX]

I dont think i lost toe to toe w another DDC yet with it, since the DHS. Maybe were starting to see why. And here I thought i was getting better.

I guesss it turns out I am a noob. I should go read that thread about why ELO is changing my gaming experience.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Sidenote: You know what gimps my team more than me not using ecm,is my team totally ignoring all in game text encouraging them to use cover, focus fire, go this way, dont go alone, etc. But nah, its my fault.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 24 February 2013 - 11:12 PM.

[K1ng Ghidorah]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

2, i shaved 1/2 ton off the legs. No one legs an atlas. So thats 2 more heatsinks, and it helps im always on the cuspt of overheating as it is. I am pretty liberal with my volleys.

You're still denying your team ECM coverage for a very marginal gain in heat efficiency. You may as well just say 'I don't want to' rather than lie to yourself.

[Lynx7725]

p4r4g0n, on 24 February 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

Based on analysis of some of my own matches, the issue appears to be with the match maker's parameters in creating a team and / or matchup. The Elo rating is just a number indicating presumed skill / experience level. What the match maker does with the numbers is what is creating some of the reported mixed bag teams other have posted about. This is not an indication of inflated / deflated Elo rating due to running in groups. PGI needs to look into this a little closer and perhaps re-think some of the MM's parameters.

In other words, Elaine records how badly you screwed up, but it's up to Maggie to find who she thinks is appropriate to stomp you over, and Betty lets you know how badly you're getting stomped over in game. Ah, the Bridge Bunnies of the MWO...

[p4r4g0n]

Lynx7725, on 24 February 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

In other words, Elaine records how badly you screwed up, but it's up to Maggie to find who she thinks is appropriate to stomp you over, and Betty lets you know how badly you're getting stomped over in game. Ah, the Bridge Bunnies of the MWO...

Actually I was putting forward a possible explanation for the mismatches which is the title of the thread as opposed to digressing into a dissection of the OP's skills or lack thereof. Guess it was already too badly derailed for a rational discussion about it.

[Lynx7725]

p4r4g0n, on 25 February 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Actually I was putting forward a possible explanation for the mismatches which is the title of the thread as opposed to digressing into a dissection of the OP's skills or lack thereof. Guess it was already too badly derailed for a rational discussion about it.

Well if you want to rationally discuss it, I'm up for it..

Thing is, you'll be right. Elaine (ELO) is just a numerical system meant to have some indication of skill, came out from the chess competition side. This is adjusted after competition, either single matches or tournaments of multiple matches. (The small scale I played with suggests that it's better to have a series of matches, rather than counting single matches, but my implementation was very simplistic.) So what it does is just to rank people. On its own, it does nothing 'cept maybe e-peen comparisons.

Maggie (Matchmaker) is actually more of concern to me, because of the way she bundles up people who drop together and then finds another random team of 8 to bundle together to fight. She's under orders to get every game sorted within 2 minutes, so she's under a lot of pressure to put together something. The longer the wait, the more my concern that whatever matching is going to be a massive screwup. The way she loosens the restrictions as time goes by is of massive concern to me, because the longer I or my group waits, the more likely that she loosens to the extent where the ELO scores is lopsided.

This can't be helped as nobody likes to wait too long for matchmaking. The issue is twofold: Whether the combined ELO of the 8 individuals is representative of whatever grouping, cooperations or lack thereof there is in there, and whether the way Maggie broaden the search is setting up for pugstomp situations.

I'm not sure PGI has gotten Maggie's brains correctly pegged. Doesn't feel quite correct. But I can't reasonably expect PGI to get it right so soon after implementation, fine-tuning might take weeks or months and that doesn't include the various influences upcoming changes might affect player performance.

[Craftyman]

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Ninja Thor, on 24 February 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

cool story bro.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Craftyman, on 25 February 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Thank you!

But I can't take all the credit. It's Elaines story, I'm just telling it.

How did you do that?

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 25 February 2013 - 04:46 AM.

[GhostFacedNinja]

The answer is obvious. Your ELO score has been reduced by not running with your ECM module. Kudos for that btw, I wouldn't, but it's amusing how much it seems to be annoying people. XD

It's probably a case of the matchmaker grabbing who ever was available, widening the ELO tolerance as it were. Combined with some bad lucks, possible bugs and that. Did you talk to them about it? Maybe they had yellow screen, or no targetting boxes. Or took an unlucky double guass to the eyeball. Happens sometimes.

[danust]

So who were the Ilya and Hunchie pilots? 1Kill 7Assist 791Dmg and 0 5 458. A heavy and medium doing their job very well, get some love and recognition too?

*Does look like a very fun drop.

Edited by Leedair, 25 February 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[Mercules]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

IF, and this is a big if, you count mr dead weight bottom of the list atlas. I for one, am not.

You should. Given the damage delivered from the other side it looks like SOMEONE soaked up a lot of damage. Your teammate may not have done much damage, but if he got some attention and then soaked up damage while someone else on your team was hammering the enemy then he may have been more than dead weight.

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

Oh yes there is, I need those 2 tons for cooling. And I find the best negator of lrms is cover.

ECM in all it's wrongly implemented glory does more than negate LRMs. In fact it doesn't negate LRMs as many ECM D-DCs have found out in the past.

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

To me, it makes little difference. I do as well without as I imagine id do with it.

Debatable. Stop imagining and maybe experiment.

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

But im sure you all think I made it up, and blah blah. The point was, heres an example of why elo is good, and going back to no elo, is bad. I actualy had another game jsut like this a few amtches later. By luck, lightning struck twice in one day, I still think i am not that good. There is a chance im improvin though.

Anyways, hate on Elaine all you want. Shes a good system, and makes for much better matches than than prior to implementation.

I wonder if you realize that Elo is not yet seeded enough to be working fully. We are "sorta" seeing Elo right now, but not really seeing it in work because it has too little data to be functioning fully yet. I believe the system is better than what we had but not anecdote right now is a true representation of how Elo is functioning. Give it a month. BTW, I say the same things to the people saying it sucks.

[Penance]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Sidenote: TankGirl, if you really are a girl, shoot me an invite. Id drop with you in a hot second. First dibs to Lefty Lucy though, shes actually liked one of my posts.

Out with it...you're the guy who floods everybody's message boxes with those love emails trolling for her to reply.

Edited by Penance, 25 February 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[Natasha Kerensky]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 February 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

Actually, I will give credit to everyone but our Awesome and Atlas at the bottom. The Illya was a beast, and so was Tank Guy. By and large the team was great, but weight wise, if you count the atlas as null bc he *cough* was less than helpful, we were greatly outgunned.

The whole, balance on weight not skill argument (The "anti-Elaine" argument), is a pretty flat one. Matches like this, completely disprove it.

Since we weren't there it's hard to judge but the Assaults with low damage could have tanked all those damage while you sat on the side shooting, which in turn allowed you to live longer. If it wasn't for them, you wouldn't have gotten the score you got.

People think they are the hot sh** but without those other players, it would just be 1v8 or 3v8 and I bet you would lose. So stop and thank those assaults that tanked all those damage for you.

Edited by Natasha Kerensky, 25 February 2013 - 07:27 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

GhostFacedNinja, on 25 February 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

The answer is obvious. Your ELO score has been reduced by not running with your ECM module. Kudos for that btw, I wouldn't, but it's amusing how much it seems to be annoying people. XD

It's probably a case of the matchmaker grabbing who ever was available, widening the ELO tolerance as it were. Combined with some bad lucks, possible bugs and that. Did you talk to them about it? Maybe they had yellow screen, or no targetting boxes. Or took an unlucky double guass to the eyeball. Happens sometimes.

I had my hands full from the moment they rushed us, I think the terribad asslts went solo sam the other way, and might have been that one was an lrm boat. I saw we had a little lrm fire support, but the enemy employed cover, ie buildings, during the "mess". You know how it is when the **** hits the fan, its hard to type things. I def. didn't have time for that.

Natasha Kerensky, on 25 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Since we weren't there it's hard to judge but the Assaults with low damage could have tanked all those damage while you sat on the side shooting, which in turn allowed you to live longer. If it wasn't for them, you wouldn't have gotten the score you got.

People think they are the hot sh** but without those other players, it would just be 1v8 or 3v8 and I bet you would lose. So stop and thank those assaults that tanked all those damage for you.

I think youve missed my many posts of self deprecation of my skill, ie, i have little.. at least in comparison to the likes of borceratops or vassago rain.

Definately not a toot my horn thread, its a, this really nails the lid on the coffin of the anti ecm, anti elo, crowd.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 25 February 2013 - 08:40 AM.

[danust]

SlXSlXSlX, on 25 February 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

n

...... this really nails the lid on the coffin of the anti ecm, anti elo, crowd.

I would say no, ELO is good. Tighter tougher matches. More 1v2 1v1 endings and the drops are short and sharp if you don't pay attention. ECM matters less too I think. And it is just getting started. There are some recent distortions due to the tourney maybe.

Tourney was a good idea in many ways. Elo data, chance to shine, and rewarded team play with pilots who might not really count on each other. And again rewarded random team play. Bit of a code stress test too. Ecm = make it cost 5t. All other priorities rescinded.