21 replies to this topic

[Enig]

It just came to me this weekend, why the heck didn't PGI give ECM to the 4X instead?

Seems to me that the 4X would have been far more interesting, while the 3L still has the strength of the missile hardpoints.

[Emeere]

Because, If I am understanding it correctly, the 3L is the Canonical go-to Electronic Warfare 'mech.

[Tennex]

notice ECM is only on the most expensive variant in each chassis. It wasn't decided by in game balance. it was decided by price.

monay > balance?



IMO all ravens should be able to mount ECM. since raven is the ECM mech, it doesn't make sense that it has only 1 ECM variant just like all the non cannon ECM mechs.

Edited by Tennex, 25 February 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Orzorn]

Because the Raven 3L comes with ECM stock?

[darkkterror]

What I'm more curious about is why the 2X and 4X have a much lower engine cap than the 3L. When I was piloting the 2X and 4X for experience I was disheartened to realize that the 3L can literally run circles around the other two. With the 3L having both ECM and a much higher engine cap it seems obvious why it's so much better than the other two.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

if the 4 x got it people would complain about the 4x they same way they complain about the 3l.

[Damocles]

^Prototype v. Production model

[Glaive-]

Honestly, every Raven should get ECM. At least maybe we'd get some variety that way!

[Redshift2k5]

The 3L is the only mech that comes STOCK with an ECM.

The question should really be, why don't all Ravens have an allowable ECM slot, the others certainly would never be more powerful than the 3L

[Fiachdubh]

In the canon the 3L is the only one of those three variants with EW equipment. Strangely when adding a mech designed purely for a EW role they decided to choose two variants that where loaded out for a combat role instead, the only two out of the 13 Raven variants that are specifically to not carry EW equipment although many of those variants are not available at this stage of the timeline. I will be interested to see the Raven Hero mech, I can almost smell the forums burning already

The 2X and 4X are also slower as they were altered to carry more weapons and armour instead.

For all the gory details http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raven

Edited by Fiachdubh, 25 February 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

armyunit, on 25 February 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Honestly, every Raven should get ECM. At least maybe we'd get some variety that way!

I agree. I would have given every mech that has a stock variant with ECM ECM, and every mech that doesn't a single variant that could. Or maybe just allowed it for all, and not make it OP instead.

[TungstenWall]

darkkterror, on 25 February 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

What I'm more curious about is why the 2X and 4X have a much lower engine cap than the 3L. When I was piloting the 2X and 4X for experience I was disheartened to realize that the 3L can literally run circles around the other two. With the 3L having both ECM and a much higher engine cap it seems obvious why it's so much better than the other two.

Dont quote me on this, but...

I think the 2X and 4X are both newer versions of the 3L, but refitted. The Raven was a failure from what I understand, lacking combat ability while being extremely expensive.
The 2X and 4X were likely made to take out the more expensive parts of the 3L, and make the Raven cheaper. More bang for your buck, but not much bang still.

[DocBach]

TungstenWall, on 25 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Dont quote me on this, but...

I think the 2X and 4X are both newer versions of the 3L, but refitted. The Raven was a failure from what I understand, lacking combat ability while being extremely expensive.
The 2X and 4X were likely made to take out the more expensive parts of the 3L, and make the Raven cheaper. More bang for your buck, but not much bang still.

backwards actually. 2x and 4x were made in the 3020s with old, experimental ecm equipment that weighed like, 5 tons. 3L came out later with updated Guardian ECM.

[Mercules]

TungstenWall, on 25 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Dont quote me on this, but...

I think the 2X and 4X are both newer versions of the 3L, but refitted. The Raven was a failure from what I understand, lacking combat ability while being extremely expensive.
The 2X and 4X were likely made to take out the more expensive parts of the 3L, and make the Raven cheaper. More bang for your buck, but not much bang still.

The Raven wasn't a failure. The issue is that the EW suite it had was limited. If it was destroyed and you don't have a replacement (say on a salvaged mech) or if you had the plant to produce the Raven, but not the EW suite then what do you do? You equip it with other things.

Edited by Mercules, 25 February 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Tarman]

It's the E-war mech. It's just that the E-war meta is way incomplete and still in need of basic balance adjustments. They were gonna give ECM to the Jenners at first too, thus ensuring nobody would ever drive any other lights again even with it on other chassis. Instead the humble Raven got the primary nod. But combine the 3L's old canon role with some current game issues and the 3L gets superpowers by accident just like a comic book.

The 3L needs to be put into a place that doesn't make the E-war mech also the Fourth Little Horseman. Small tweaks to its hitboxing (this is from community chirp, haven't done my own observations), Streaks and their omni-launch-angle power, and ECM balancing should eventually put it back in its place as a support-style mech and a valid choice amongst others instead of being THE light mech. Knockdowns alone would help keep them from driving up peoples' sixes and unloading with impunity. Backing over lights and blasting them apart on the ground was a fun and viable tactic and should be a thing that lights need to fear.

[Fiachdubh]

TungstenWall, on 25 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Dont quote me on this, but...

I think the 2X and 4X are both newer versions of the 3L, but refitted. The Raven was a failure from what I understand, lacking combat ability while being extremely expensive.
The 2X and 4X were likely made to take out the more expensive parts of the 3L, and make the Raven cheaper. More bang for your buck, but not much bang still.

I know you said not to quote you but..

You are partially right. The original Raven 1X was a failure due to the poor EW equipment available at the time. After the Gray Death Legion gave the knowledge of the Helm SL database to all they were able to produce the 3L.

Below copy & pasted from Sarna for your convenience.

RVN-1X - The original prototype of what became the RVN-3L Raven, this is the unit that was pressed into service against the Federated Suns during the Fourth Succession Wars. With XL engine technology not yet available, the 'Mech mounts a standard Omni 175 fusion engine, giving it a maximum speed of 86 km/h, and is protected by four tons of standard armor. The EW Equipment at the time that this 'Mech was built consisted of a massive 7.5 ton experimental electronic warfare suite that unfortunately did not live up to expectations. The equipment also had the unfortunate side-effect, when damaged, of disrupting other systems, though normally communications and targeting only.

RVN-2X - Many of the Ravens captured by the Federated Suns in the Fourth Succession War were refitted to the 2X standard. It replaces the EW equipment with a Large Laser and adds an additional two and a half tons of armor.

RVN-4X - A Capellan variant of the original prototype, the -4X was an attempt to turn the chassis into a pure combat unit. It removes the EW equipment and is outfitted with five jump jets and two Machine Guns with a ton of ammunition. The armor was increased to the chassis' limit of seven tons

Edited by Fiachdubh, 25 February 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Tennex]

DocBach, on 25 February 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

backwards actually. 2x and 4x were made in the 3020s with old, experimental ecm equipment that weighed like, 5 tons. 3L came out later with updated Guardian ECM.

sounds like the 2x and 4x should be ECM capable then.

[PhoenixFire55]

Actually the proper question would be why only specific mechs can mount ECM. I believe that every mech in canon BT can in theory have ECM.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

The 1X was the first Raven with an experimental ECM suite, this suite didn't work it was a bit of a disaster.

The 2X Raven was a FedSuns creation using captured 1X Ravens they took out the useless suite and replaced it with guns.

The 4X Raven is a Capella design, taking the 1X prototype and trying to make it into a combat mech.

The 3L is a new mech that was designed from the start with the functional ECM suite that was previously lostech.


The 2x and 4x were never designed with Guardian ECM in mind.

[Ghogiel]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 25 February 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

if the 4 x got it people would complain about the 4x they same way they complain about the 3l.

The 4X would still be a heap of crap with it's slow max speed and whack hard points.

It would probably make the streakmando more useful though.