24 replies to this topic

[Cpt Spectacular]

Greetings dear MWO-Followers,

my suggestions point mainly in two directions: small mechs are way too overpowered.

This is simply my own opinion but I'm an oldschool BattleTech-Veteran an there it's not really possible to destroy an Atlas with a Raven (for example). The Raven-Pilot normally just wanted to get out of the Atlas firing range.

The number of players with small mechs has increased recently. I think this is because of the superiority of small mechs against other (slower) mechs.

A small scout-mech in BattleTech can't handle much damage (no small mech can do that). But when I see what damage small mechs in MWO can take... not really funny. Two mid-range direct hits with ER-PPC (in BattleTech usually the end of the most small mechs), several direct hits with two AC/2 and several direct hits with ER Large Laser. No problem! I think it is just frustrating...

It's also not really funny to see an Atlas fall by two small and one medium laser. Normally the Atlas-Pilot would die laughing because of this presumption. But in MWO no Small-Mech-Pilot has to be really afraid of those huge killers anymore - which makes the authority of Assault-Mechs pointless and futile.

The other thing I urgently want to say: ECM is also way too overpowered. When the open beta for MWO started there were about 1-3 player with ECM. Meanwhile the most players on both sides start with ECMs.

I don't want to complain about ECMs... but when I read that some players want them to be installable for ALL mechs: please don't do this! Make them installable for the fewest mechs. The whole ECM-thing gets pointless, when all players are running around with it.

That's enough for now. Thanks for reading so far and let me bid you a nice farewell.

Cpt. Spectacular

[Mechteric]

Its getting easier to kill light mechs already. And besides do we really want to see this game become just like Mechwarrior 4 where everyone just took Daishi's and Black Knights? No thanks.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 29 January 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[Obikirk]

Im guessing your primarily a assault pilot? The current aim for balance as I understand it is that lights should be able to defeat heavier mechs (particularly the assaults) using superior agility. If they didn't, why would anyone want to pilot the lighter mechs?

oh also: heavy pilot here

[Cpt Spectacular]

I don't only like Mechwarrior 4... I loved all of the Mechwarrior games and like I said: I grew up with BattleTech. So...

I'm mainly a heavy-pilot (Muromets). The main reason why to play a light mech is for speed advantage and scouting purpose - not for destruction. In the "old ages" no one wanted to play a small mech to destroy someone higher than medium mechs because it was pointless. But that's it... When I take a look at the statistics there are way too many kills for light mech pilots. Like I said: they are originally concipated as scouts and light support.

When three small mechs surround ONE assault mech - fine. The assault mech will probably get destroyed. I can understand that. But one small mech destroys one assault mech with no significant problems (based on 1vs1 situations). I takes time because of the light weapons... but the small mech usually prevails.

I don't think this is the balance. Sorry!

But thank you for your opinions! :-D

[Wolf Clearwater]

Even in the table top game, 1 (or several) small mechs were/are a significant threat even to an Atlas when they could maneuver behind the larger mech. This is why so many larger mechs had rear facing weapons of some sort (usually a medium laser or two), or arms that could "flip over".

[Bhael Fire]

I play all weight classes, and I have to say they are all pretty well balanced except for assaults.

So it's not so much that lights are too powerful as that assaults are not powerful enough. Assaults simply do not have enough armor to deal with how pathetically slow they are.

[Pachar]

In all of the videos from the lead dev of this game he kept crowing about "role warfare" where different size mech did different things. The lights are supposed to scout out targets and provide recon for the larger mechs to kill. They aren't supposed to kill the larger targets themselves, maybe finish them off, but not kill them all on their own. That is what's happening right now.

[MechWarrior849305]

Maaaan, I don't understand yuor whining about small mechs. You can easily buy one for your own and feel free to kill atlases with it. Believe it or not, after 5-6 matches you'll switch it back to Ilya It's not that much easier to kill someone piloting these things, even a light mech. Just try several weight classes and find your own niche. For example, I love to pilot K2 with some freaky strange build, yet I have also ravens in my mechlab.

To say, CTFs way to slow even in the heavy class. Cats outrun them with no problems. Are they overpowered too?

[Cpt Spectacular]

I like the opinion of Bhael Fire: light mechs are not overpowered - assault mechs are underpowered. This sounds somehow right. Assault mechs should have a lot more armor so everone with small or medium lasers thinks, it's a waste of time shooting assault mechs.

And dear Mr. DuoAngel: I'm not whining. I simply notify! Light mechs never were and never will be my favourite class. I love my Ilya Muromets and I'm greatly looking forward to a Marauder (hopefully). But when I'm sitting in my Ilya, watching a small mech running circles around me, shooting about ten minutes while circling - this is no gaming fun, sorry sir! Few bull's eye hits with Gauss, PPC or AC/20 should be enough for every small mech. But no way, sir! They keep on running... they won't even slow down a little bit.

I can understand why so many gamer want to play light mechs - the KDR is enormous for many light mech gamers. But I'm too old for this KDR-Thingie... I don't really care how my KDR looks like! So please understand: I don't want to make your way of gaming bad! I'm just not like you!

Sincerely

[Bhael Fire]

Cpt Spectacular, on 29 January 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Assault mechs should have a lot more armor so everone with small or medium lasers thinks, it's a waste of time shooting assault mechs.

Exactly. I always think of that scene in Empire Strikes Back with the Imperial walkers when I think of Assault mechs. They should be slow and easy to hit, but with LOTS of armor. They don't necessarily need to pack a lot a firepower as much as the fact they are just really hard to take down...requiring a combined effort.

[Syllogy]

Bhael Fire, on 29 January 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Exactly. I always think of that scene in Empire Strikes Back with the Imperial walkers when I think of Assault mechs. They should be slow and easy to hit, but with LOTS of armor. They don't necessarily need to pack a lot a firepower as much as the fact they are just really hard to take down...requiring a combined effort.

Apparently you keep forgetting all those times that I've rode up to you in my DC Atlas, and proceeded to hand out a whoopin'.

We're currently 6/0 on encounters, Bhael.

I carry 2 Large Lasers, 3 SRM 6's, and a Gauss Rifle (sometimes an AC20, if I feel froggy)

For reference, real-world application of Heavies vs. Lights can be seen in the WW2 aerial theatre.

Heavy bombers that were loaded with gun pods and armor were incredibly vulnerable to more nimble, smaller, faster planes. These bombers required light escorts to guard them and engage the enemy.

The same tactics can be seen in MWO. Lights engage heavies, other lights pursue, etc.

Edited by Syllogy, 29 January 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Volthorne]

I would like to take the time to say that in a TT game I had a while ago, I almost took out a Marauder II with a single Locust ( they were the only 'Mechs left on the board at the time). Is taking on an Assault in a Light a good idea? No. Is it do-able? Yes. Can you win? If you're a damned good pilot and get lucky.

[Bhael Fire]

Syllogy, on 29 January 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Apparently you keep forgetting all those times that I've rode up to you in my DC Atlas, and proceeded to hand out a whoopin'.

We're currently 6/0 on encounters, Bhael.

I carry 2 Large Lasers, 3 SRM 6's, and a Gauss Rifle (sometimes an AC20, if I feel froggy)

Wow. I'm flattered you've been keeping track.

I'll be sure to keep an eye out for you now...

Edited by Bhael Fire, 29 January 2013 - 08:32 AM.

[MechWarrior849305]

Cpt Spectacular, on 29 January 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

I love my Ilya Muromets and I'm greatly looking forward to a Marauder (hopefully). But when I'm sitting in my Ilya, watching a small mech running circles around me, shooting about ten minutes while circling - this is no gaming fun, sorry sir! Few bull's eye hits with Gauss, PPC or AC/20 should be enough for every small mech. But no way, sir! They keep on running... they won't even slow down a little bit.

Can't remember the name of a mechwarrior (hopefully he'll forgive me) that oneshot me with 6xPPC from half kilometer range, while I was running by my case. So, no complaints, All Hail Victorious!!!
And to say, I just wish to see not a Marauder, but Behemoth

[Roland]

Quote

I'm an oldschool BattleTech-Veteran an there it's not really possible to destroy an Atlas with a Raven (for example).

And.... false.

[Cpt Spectacular]

Bhael Fire, on 29 January 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

They don't necessarily need to pack a lot a firepower as much as the fact they are just really hard to take down...requiring a combined effort.

Yes, indeed! The combined effort is in MWO still essential... but not for 1vs1 / light vs. assault. 8 out of 10 times the assault will lose!

Volthorne, on 29 January 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

I would like to take the time to say that in a TT game I had a while ago, I almost took out a Marauder II with a single Locust ( they were the only 'Mechs left on the board at the time). Is taking on an Assault in a Light a good idea? No. Is it do-able? Yes. Can you win? If you're a damned good pilot and get lucky.

You're right with this. But you don't have to be a damn good pilot nor do you have to be lucky to destroy an assault-mech with a light-mech. Every douchebag can run in circles around the target and fire on the legs like hell. Not very much skill needed for that! Only light mechs with the same flexibitiy and speed can outmatch another light mech (or if the light mech gets surrounded).

@Roland: Nice video by the way! I can remember many situations at BattleTech or Warhammer 40k where I just wanted to smash to playing-table because of the darn dices I must admit: at the table-top BattleTech most of the game depends on luck with dices! But MWO isn't a dice-based game!

I'm tired of getting killed by circling-light-mech-freaks trying to raise up their KDR... If they want to play real quick and shoot many mechs they should try playing Hawken!

Edited by Cpt Spectacular, 30 January 2013 - 03:04 AM.

[w0rm]

Cpt Spectacular, on 30 January 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Every douchebag can run in circles around the target and fire on the legs like hell. Not very much skill needed for that! Only light mechs with the same flexibitiy and speed can outmatch another light mech (or if the light mech gets surrounded).

Free kills for my K2. The more lights the better.

[Stringburka]

On every map except caustic valley, it should be easy to find a wall or crevasse to back up against. Do that and light mechs can't circle you. And carry some weapons to deal with lights - LBX, large lasers and SSRMs are what I fear most in my raven. Someone standing with their back to a wall, carrying an LBX? Nope, ain't gonna touch that.

I DON'T like the idea of assaults being superior in combat to light mechs at all - in a board game it works out because of different costs of deployment, so when you play the one using light mechs might have five while the assault mech user has two. Then it makes sense.

In this game, where it's one pilot = one mech, not so much.

w0rm, on 30 January 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

Free kills for my K2. The more lights the better.

On that, how would one build a light-hunter Kat? 2xLBX + some medlas and an XL engine?

[w0rm]

Stringburka, on 30 January 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

On that, how would one build a light-hunter Kat? 2xLBX + some medlas and an XL engine?

2x AC20's

[Gaan Cathal]

Light pilot here, with an occasional sideline into Stalkers. Whilst I'd not be adverse to a bit more armour on assaults to mitigate the Large Target factor, there's two points I'd like to make.

A) MWO works on an extended rock-paper scissors principle in general - lights are vulnerable to mediums are vulnerable to heavies are vulnerable to assaults are vulnerable to lights. This was out of whack prior to the netcode fix, since mediums couldn't kill ligjts worth a damn, but now they can. Assaults are large and slow, and can't bring thier weapons to bear effectively on fast targets (except when they do).

If you are regularly dying in an Ilya to a light who does nothing but circle you since the netcode fix then I'm sorry to say the pilot has more to do with the problem than the mechs. Lights -can- take down those targets still, but need to hang in rear arcs or hit and run against pilots who know how to react.