ECM prevents critical data from being transmittied.
You can not even lock onto a target until it is within 25% of your maximum sensor range.
This means that if ECM is covering a Splatcat you will not know it is a splatcat until it is within 200m of you.
The typical Spatcat maves at 80KPH or more and we know SRMs have a range of 270m (more effective at 90m) not much time to kill it is there?
So the math says you only have a point when there is no ECM cover and the Splatcat was stupid enough to not approach under cover.
It's an A1. That should be plenty enough information.
Topics like this only prove some people are only going to be happy when we get stuck with stock builds and will continue to scream and bite the pillow till then.
If that where only a possiblity. The Mech Lab will be a ongoing issue with PGI and MWO. They should have either gone this route (btw we'd be into the clan invasion by now and the mek choices would be better) or limit greatly what you could change to small things. As it is now it will be an ongoing fight every day to tweek stuff, time that could be spent improving MWO with more maps, meta-game, and more mechs.
Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 01 March 2013 - 03:38 AM.
ROFLwaffle49, on 25 February 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:
Shoot them before they get to you. Problem solved. Honestly. If you are getting killed by a brawler its because you aren't aware of what is going on around you. Not saying you are bad or etc. But getting killed by a splat cat is completely avoidable.
This mostly, although if they pop out behind a bldg or are under ECM cover you are toast.
OneEyed Jack, on 26 February 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:
Splatcats often annoy me greatly in the moment, but no more than several other things, and I don't feel they ruin the game. However, it's quite apparent which people are desperate to defend them with idiotic comments like:
Don't get close
Shoot the ears off
Use your sensors before you charge
... and other nonsense.
Either that or they're desperate for others to think they're better at the game than they actually are. Little do they know that it only demonstrates their ignorance.
Anybody with a lick of common sense, and the balls to admit they occasionally die in a video game, knows that:
Splatcats are fairly fast and can catch just about anything that's trying to back away
If you're faster and turn to run, you just die to 36 missiles in the back before you go far
If you're faster and turn to run, you can't shoot at the ears, because they're behind you... shooting you in the back
The same cover that protects you from Snipers and LRMs gives the Splatcat cover to get close
Splatcats have enough armor that it's essentially impossible to prevent them getting at least 2 alphas before a single mech can kill them or amputate an ear. Teammates, unless they were already facing them, will likely take at least this long to respond.
Only very bad Splatcat pilots approach across open terrain
Splatcats, along with AC20-cats, are often piloted by the most cowardly players and don't even enter the fight until everyone is half dead and they can 1-shot people
Yes, yes they can be dealt with, assuming your team has the brains to focus them down, but that doesn't help that first guy they saw when you/they came around the corner or over the hill.
If they are already in range to shoot you, you have already failed your situational awareness check.
Newsflash, backing/turning around to run away are what you do at FIVE HUNDRED METERS. Its not you do when "oh crap my arm just got blown off, i think i'll run away NAOW!"
They might be fast, but they are not fast enough to flank a stalker backpedalling and turning appropriately. If a stalker can't kill an A1 pilot before the A1 shreds your CT well thats just a bad pilot.
Pretty much what happens is good players decide they want to try something new. pick ANYTHING and that thing becomes the OMGWTF its OP thread of the week.
Streaks, lrms, gauss, medium lasers, gauss, atremis lrm (ok i'll give you that at first implement) streaks again, ecm, now srm. ac20's where in there at some point and also 4ac2 4X's.
If they are already in range to shoot you, you have already failed your situational awareness check.
Newsflash, backing/turning around to run away are what you do at FIVE HUNDRED METERS. Its not you do when "oh crap my arm just got blown off, i think i'll run away NAOW!"
They might be fast, but they are not fast enough to flank a stalker backpedalling and turning appropriately. If a stalker can't kill an A1 pilot before the A1 shreds your CT well thats just a bad pilot.
Pretty much what happens is good players decide they want to try something new. pick ANYTHING and that thing becomes the OMGWTF its OP thread of the week.
Streaks, lrms, gauss, medium lasers, gauss, atremis lrm (ok i'll give you that at first implement) streaks again, ecm, now srm. ac20's where in there at some point and also 4ac2 4X's.
A 2 year old can pilot a splat kat to short range. Thanks though.
The maps are much more claustrophobic and with a lot more cover than you guys give credit for. Sure, if it was 1 on 1, and you know a Splatcat is coming, head to open range and pot shot him while he attempts to get close enough. but, when you need to account for LRMs, PPCs, Gauss, and general limitations to where you can actually be at a given time, it gets rather difficult. and if you're at equal health, you'll almost never be able to come out ahead.
Shooting critical weapon slots, keeping cover, and making sure you're at a safe distance are all very generic points of advice. That goes for any mech; however, the Splatcat is not average at what it does, and there isn't anything very specific besides being in a group of organized people that can counter it effectively. That's the big issue, it's a pug monster.
One thing people keep ignoring is that you could not target weapons in the board game unless you had a targetting computer and then only at a penalty.
In MWO every weapon can be aimed at any location you like with very good accuracy.
Yeah, SRMs are supposed to spread out and for the most part they do, even with artemis, but ALL weapons are supposed to spread out. You fire 6 PPCs and everyone of them might hit a different location in the TT. In MWO they can all hit the same location or the same general location at the very least.
This is why missle damage was raised.
The only time you see SRMs converging is around the 50 meter range. Outside of that they have increasing chance to spread out. Fairly useless to fire past 100m as half of them will miss.
The problem is everyone and their mother closes to 2 meters and starts alphaing the other guys center torso. Then they come here and complain that someone else had a build that does more damage than theirs face to face.
The problem is the maps. There is too much cover. Almost every map* has so much cover you can stay completely hidden until you are in knife fighting range where Srm's and many other weapons are optimal. This was intentional because they didnt want long range weapons like LRM's or direct fire weapons to be too dominant.
Look at Alpine. Any team can setup a defense line that makes splat cats just about worthless. Thats because there are areas on that map where theres no cover. Areas where you have to take a risk and cross no mans land to get anything done.
Corwin Vickers, on 04 March 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:
One thing people keep ignoring is that you could not target weapons in the board game unless you had a targetting computer and then only at a penalty.
In MWO every weapon can be aimed at any location you like with very good accuracy.
Yeah, SRMs are supposed to spread out and for the most part they do, even with artemis, but ALL weapons are supposed to spread out. You fire 6 PPCs and everyone of them might hit a different location in the TT. In MWO they can all hit the same location or the same general location at the very least.
This is why missle damage was raised.
The only time you see SRMs converging is around the 50 meter range. Outside of that they have increasing chance to spread out. Fairly useless to fire past 100m as half of them will miss.
The problem is everyone and their mother closes to 2 meters and starts alphaing the other guys center torso. Then they come here and complain that someone else had a build that does more damage than theirs face to face.
That is not the largest advantage of SRMs over the TT though. The main difference is that in the TT so is the number of missiles that hit totally random and independent of pilot skill. In MWO so is it easy to land every missile at close range and thus getting far more damage for each salvo then in the TT: That combined with the bonus damage done by SRMs in MWO makes them do about double the damage compared with the TT.
Granted it can be a little hard to do if they sneak up on you but it does not ruin the game, like at all....as in not even a little bit.... its REAL simple to deal with them, here is the trick, you ready? Stay past 270m and pierce those big 'ole ears! I've ran them and shot at them, not hard to do. I don't care for them on the field personally, I agree they take no skill to use when your in range but its not some OP doomsday game breaking cheese build as some people like to believe. Learn to adapt or quit playing...simple.
The problem with cheese, primarily the splatcat, is that it kills the fun of the game. Forget good aim, concentrating fire with teammates, managing laser and ballistic, heat and ammo...
Nope! Just grab a 'Cat, fill it to the brim with SRMs and kill everything but assaults in two salvos. The problem isn't even with these builds getting multiple kills. Even if they trade kills, it still has a broader effect. The problem is being on the receiving side and being taken taken out near instantly to something you can't possibly defend yourself from on most maps before being gibbed. This is simply not fun. It's frustrating, grating, and utterly annoying. You can desperatly alpha strike, torso twist, and run for cover, but the mindless, fun-ripping Splatcat will simply kamakaze right into you and strip off armor and weapons in one move.
I like Mech Warrior due to the prolonged battle, squeezing every amount of skill, aim, and armor from your mech before going down. This is NOT Call of Duty where can die instantly from a tiny amount of fire. Splatcats don't feel like Mechwarrior. They don't feel right to fight, kill, be killed by, or even be used in the game. It's just not fun. And that's what we have here...
Splatcats should be renamed: "Killed the Fun in MWO Cats."
Also people on this forum are apparently incapable of reading comprehension. It's not about killing, being killed by them. It's about how their playstyle is rubbish game design. Read.
1 problem.
ECM is just as bad, if not worse, and as a result running SRMs on A1s is the only option.
CBF'ed reading whole thread, but im gonna put my voice in and whinge about these lame exploiters of a good games short-comings. It really sucks when a scat-cat takes a dump on you. Its not uncommon to be taken out in one shot if you are a medium and even heavy in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Don't know if its been suggested or not, but my idea is to make large volleys of SRMs have a higher chance of the missiles crashing into each other before the target. When they crash into each other they destroy themselves and splash damage what ever is close. (both the sender and receiver if in close proximity) These weapons are "dumb fire", so would it not make sense to do this? Firing say maybe 10-12 missiles shouldn't cause this, but once the air is thick with missiles (ie 36 from a splat cat alpha), then the chance of them colliding should be greater, and collide at close proximity to the fire'r. Maybe make ARTEMIS reduce the chance of large volleys colliding with each other some what. Or perhaps make the chance of them colliding relative to placement, ie, if they all originate from the same arm/torso then the chance of collision is increased further. I understand that "missile tubes" come into play here as well, as if the mech only has a few tubes, then the missiles must stagger fire any ways, which will obliviously mean a missile on missile collision is not possible.
This will hopefully reduce people using splat-cats as huge close range alpha strike cannons. But not impact to greatly on regular users of the SRM. I do not like the idea of heat penalty's or damage reductions as it would impact too heavily on what is, when used in moderation, a really fun weapon. And people can still use SRM boating mechs, but instead of alpha shooting, it will force them to chain fire, which will at least spread the damage some what and reduce these one shot kills that I think is what ****** most people off. Nothing too detrimental to the weapons effectiveness, but just enough to make boating these weapons slightly less popular. Could maybe also implement a similar thing to large salvos of LRM?
Any way, thank you developers for a really fun game. Hope you keep up good work on improving and refining it.
PS, one more thing on weapon balancing, can you please further increase the machine guns damage potential? Tried a dragon 5n with 3 X MGs and was dissapointed with the effectiveness.
The ^&$*ING radar lets you know what a mech is carrying before you charge it. USE IT, stop charging Missile Box Eared Cats before figuring out what is in them.
Little hint - almost everything in the game lets you sit outside an SRM's good cone range and blow it apart.
Sorry but this hypothetical out range SRM does not work on most maps. Either the splatter is already on top of you or can outrun/maneuver many mech configurations. Worse yet is when a Zerg of Splatters fall on you at Theta on ice city, where to run/cover/out range.
A sad example of simple dps and game balance gone wrong. Any mech configuration can not compete with the sheer DPS, agility, & armor of a splatter/cat cheese plain and simple.
The splatter should be properly adjusted to 2 (As per canon A1 sucks & carried only 2xLRM15's) or for the sake of not totally nerfing the A1 to junk maybe 3 or 4 tubes total.
In general the all of the Catapults are unbalanced as for hardpoints. With a combination of hardpoint reductions and hardpoint controlled (i.e. hardpointX can only weighX or have Xcrits slots) a balnce can be met for both MWO game play and meet Canon.
For those who care not for Canon please realize this is a franchise for which some have paid cash based on its name and the pledge of publisher to be as canon as possible.
As per Canon:
CPLT-C1
Mass 65 tons
Speed 64.8 km/h Jump Jets
Armament 2xLRM-15s 4xMedium Lasers
CPLT-A1 - The A1 variant of the Catapult was designed without back-up weapons. While it doubles the amount of LRM ammo carried and adds on two tons of armor, it is highly susceptible to close range attacks and has little defense if an enemy does manage to close in on it.
CPLT-C4 - Replacing the Medium Lasers with a single Small Laser and removing some heat sinks, the -C4 instead carries two LRM-20 launchers with double the amount of ammunition, giving it about twenty five percent more damage capability at long range.
CPLT-K2 - Breaking the mold of the Catapult, this House Kurita model removes the LRM-15 launchers and replaces them with two PPCs, allowing the Catapult to act as a direct fire support 'Mech and take a more active role in front line combat. The 'Mech mounts five additional single heat sinks to help dissipate the added heat from the PPCs and two Machine Guns to deter infantry attacks. Space is made by removing the jump jets and two of the medium lasers.
Catapult is an offense oriented, second-line fire-support BattleMech initially produced on a limited contract for the Terran Hegemony. Its ten tons of armor, fifteen heat sinks and top speed of 64.8 km/h allows the Catapult to deliver its payload of Long Range Missiles on an enemy from great distances without the risk of return fire. The use of four jump jetsgives the Catapult a jumping distance of one hundred and twenty meters and the ability to pace faster units over broken terrain. The original Anderson 21 model jump jets tended to break down over prolonged use, venting into the machine's interior and overheating the 'Mech. A general recall in 2566 to replace the 21s with improved Anderson 25s solved the issue, though some Catapults never received this retrofit. The 'Mech is also unique for having a sideways ejection system which, while generally safe, can be quite a surprise to newCatapult pilots.[4][5]
Representing Hollis Incorporated's first foray into the 'Mech market, the Catapult was produced in record numbers over its initial three-year period from the company's brand-new, state-of-the-art factory. However, when the contract came up for review in 2563, the Hegemony decided not to renew it; while the Catapult had performed adequately at its role, it was not quite what they wanted. With large numbers of the 'Mech still in the field, the Catapult would continue to see use in the Star League Defense Force with second-line and specialist formations such as mountaineering regiments. When the factory constructing them switched over to the more-successful BattleMaster, Hollis' limited production of spare parts couldn't keep the design's numbers from dwindling.[4][5]
When the Star League fell, many of the remaining Catapults joined Aleksandr Kerensky on his Exodus. The Capellan Confederation collected most of the Catapults that remained in the Inner Sphere, and the Hollis factory on Corey briefly produced new models and spare parts. At the same time, the Draconis Combine managed to seize a sizable force in their capture of Dieron. The renewed production ended when the Corey factory was destroyed at the onset of the First Succession War, ensuring the rarity of the Catapult during the rest of that bloody era. Entire invasions were commenced simply to seize the remaining number of these 'Mechs, particularly those launched by the Federated Suns against the Confederation.[4][5]
Many variants of this venerable design were produced through its lifetime, and the Catapult's rarity began to reverse in 3033 when Yori 'Mech Works was contracted by the DCMS to produce the completely-revamped CPLT-2K on Al Na'ir. The greatest change to the chassis came later, with the introduction of the CPLT-C3, which swapped out the original's LRMs for much larger and more powerful artillery missiles. These models were put to excellent use, especially when paired with Ravens, and paved the way for new design advancements.[6]
In the years prior to and after the Clan Invasion, The Confederacy and Combine retained the largest number of existing Catapults, though many Periphery realms would field some of the centuries-old models, and more variants would be produced for decades.[6]
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Lykaon, on 28 February 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:
