201 replies to this topic

[Harrison Kelly]

DocBach, on 27 February 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

I managed to get to the top 10 medium slot using a non-cheese, non FOTM build. I bought a CN9-A for the tournament (owned a 9D with the stock XL engine and a gauss rifle), didn't have much cash so I sold the LRM-10 for two SRM-6's and double heat sinks. I wanted to compete in the tournament without using a cheese 'Mech just to see how well I could do.

I didn't run the 3x SRM-6 large engine build because I couldn't afford a large engine, and when I could I decided I really liked the setup with the slow standard 200. The AC was great for making long range shots, or putting holes in stuff right where I wanted them, and the SRM's would exploit the damage.

So yes, I think an amount of individual skill can make up for not using kraft macaroni, at least a little bit.

Granted, but the post that I quoted implied that taking an inferior build makes you a more skilled pilot. That's not true. Your skill might be able to compensate for a bad build, but it doesn't make you better. Or cooler. Or anything but dead meat to an equally-skilled pilot in a better build.

Also, given the definition of "cheese" in other games is doing something unorthodox . . . is, say, a 3x SRM6 centurion or A1 splatcat really cheese since that's the most prevalent accepted build for those variants? That's akin to calling a FFE Protoss "cheese" in SC II, when it's in fact the most common thing ever.

Edited by Harrison Kelly, 27 February 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[hashinshin]

the size of medium mechs is too damn high.

Seriously, 50 ton mechs should not be about the same size as 60, 65, 70, and 80 ton mechs. Hell, compare the size of the trebuchet and the stalker in your mech lab, they have like a 15% difference at best.

Basically, all mediums need to be 15-20% smaller so they are actually harder to hit targets and not just heavy mechs with 20 less tons to work with.

Edited by hashinshin, 27 February 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[WANTED]

I started with a Hunchie 4J and then bailed on it cause I couldn't figure out what to do with him and was getting dominated. I've gone back to him now and realized what to do.

1) Hug ECM mechs, especially Atlas ECM equipped mechs
2) Stay with him and be patient ( which was hard for me early on as I wanted to Pew pew pew! )
3) Keep his back clear and stay in cover. Once you see the numbers changing ( hopefully ) to your side's favor then you can be more aggressive.
4) Kill the wounded guys

This helped me immensely with my Hunchie.

[kalami]

WANTED, on 27 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

I started with a Hunchie 4J and then bailed on it cause I couldn't figure out what to do with him and was getting dominated. I've gone back to him now and realized what to do.

1) Hug ECM mechs, especially Atlas ECM equipped mechs
2) Stay with him and be patient ( which was hard for me early on as I wanted to Pew pew pew! )
3) Keep his back clear and stay in cover. Once you see the numbers changing ( hopefully ) to your side's favor then you can be more aggressive.
4) Kill the wounded guys

This helped me immensely with my Hunchie.

This is exactly how to play it; you have to be patient and wait until the other team is down a man and yellow; thats where you can shine. Overwhelming a heavier mech when they are already beat down is easy to do with your speed and payload. Chain your laser fire and pop your srms or ssrms will keep them off balance and you are too fast for them to keep up.

Biggest mistake is accidently getting surrounded because of your speed; ive done it on occasion where im picking a part a large mech only to drift into 2 more enemies. At least I know why I die in those situations and the mistake I made.

[Targetloc]

Medium mechs have only two purposes. Being cheap, or being fast harassers/scout killers.

Since PGI removed repair costs mediums are only really useful if they're fast.


There is a huge number of 4/6 mediums they don't have a place in MWO right now.

[vrok]

Become scrap to finance real mechs that aren't a handicap to yourself and your team.

Edited by vrok, 28 February 2013 - 02:05 PM.

[Aegis Kleais]

Lately, I'd say what Medium Mechs do is Explode in 1 shot. It's been happening more and more.

I want to pilot a good Heavy chassis, but it's both sickening as it is disturbing to see even Mediums dying in 1 shot as often as they do. I abhor games like Counterstrike where 90% of your deaths are in 1 shot. I really hope MW:O isn't becoming that.

[HexSystem6]

Khobai, on 25 February 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Thats why rewarding kills and KDR as a stat needs to be removed. It brings out bad qualities in players.

True.
What happened to "Role Warfare" were pilots are rewarded based on the role they play? It's all about how much damage you did, components destroyed, enemies killed.

[Joseph Mallan]

Doobles, on 25 February 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

There has to be some role they fill. Is it safe to say they basically rely on speed like lights do? They are easy to hit, don't have the best firepower, so what is up with them?

They are the middle of the Pack. They are Fast but not the fastest, They can carry a good weapon load but no the best, hey are good at many role but master of None. That is their role. Being a good solid Mech no matter the need.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I use the Swayback Hunch as more of a high-powered light. 9Mlasers, 90+ kph, etc.. It vents heat better than a light, doesn't get legged all the time like a light, and it is quick like a light (although definently on the slowest end of the light scale).

I like using it better than my Ravens.

[Training Instructor]

This weekend there will be little point in piloting a medium unless you're willing to work extremely hard every game to optimize terrain and never ever put yourself out in the open where anyone can get a clean alpha on you.
SRM nerf really screwed the mediums. It was the platform where the damage to weight ratio was perfect, because you could run a standard engine and pack a big punch while moving pretty quickly. Not anymore though


This is the new Meta for MWO, one clean alpha hit to a torso on a medium mech and you have to completely revise your match strategy because you'll be walking around with red armor or no armor and red internals, depending on which degenerate shot you.

You wanted to brawl with your medium? Sorry, the big heavy/assault with long distance pinpoint 40+ alpha just made your CT red before you could even see where he was firing from. You wanted to snipe with your medium? Sorry, unless you're a cicada who can move relocate extremely quickly, you're going to lose that war with all the 65+ ton snipers.

There's a role for flanking, but the Centurions and Trebuchets are so big that they're difficult to miss. With the SRM nerf it takes a lot of work to make them work, compared to playing a heavy or assault.

[Tahribator]

With the release of highlander, I've been seeing matches with 6 assaults and 1 light and 1 medium. In that environment light and medium aren't significant at all, they might as well quit. There are heavies/assaults as mobile as mediums while packing more armor and firepower,so people will just keep flocking to them.

There has to be some mechanic that balance the numbers of mech classes. I'd suggest a set number of mech classes per match (say 2 Assaults 2 Heavies 3 Mediums 2 Lights) and voila, suddenly Assaults became much more important on the field while other classes can enjoy a level battlefield. This will also mean whichever class has the most "demand" they will have to wait longer on the matchmaker screen until a new assault slot opens. Whoever doesn't want to wait, can just pick another class.

[Black Templar]

flankers and raiders

[Dishevel]

HexSystem6, on 19 April 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

True.
What happened to "Role Warfare" were pilots are rewarded based on the role they play? It's all about how much damage you did, components destroyed, enemies killed.

Why the heck do you feel the need to bring up crap that has been over for 3 weeks?
Are you really that bored?

[Bobdolemite]

my mediums are very effective, though people are correct if you walk into the wrong place your toast.

For me the only mediums I play (for now) is a TBT-5J (2xppc,2xml poptart) and a CN-9D (runs at 120kph 2xml,2xssrm,1xac5)

IMO in mediums current state its a min mix game as far as speed / mobility is concerned. The TBT-5J pwns at poptart because of the torso turn, you can hit someone in the front jj over the top and twist to hit their back. Didnt notice how good this was until I tried to do the same in a 3D.

[LordBraxton]

Mediums need help because their main bite SRMs

have been hardcore nerfed

[jper4]

Tahribator, on 19 April 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

With the release of highlander, I've been seeing matches with 6 assaults and 1 light and 1 medium. In that environment light and medium aren't significant at all, they might as well quit. There are heavies/assaults as mobile as mediums while packing more armor and firepower,so people will just keep flocking to them.

i pretty much have to force myself to sit and wait and wait (with mixed levels of success) in these kinds of matches til all the heavy/assaults have plinked away at each other for a few minutes. only then (except for all the times i get impatient) do i try to either flank or seek out the snipers in the back of the enemy pile and hope that i last long enough to get the enemy's attention on me so those snails...er assaults can get into brawling range. of course when the rest of the team is all snipers too things don;t turn out so well. sometimes i manage to flee back to friendly lines- missing an arm, torso, both, armorless leg, red CT and other arm, no arms, 1 ML left. but dammit still living!

[Major Scumbag]

Khobai, on 25 February 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Thats why rewarding kills and KDR as a stat needs to be removed. It brings out bad qualities in players.

I think thats it right there. Since they did change it to that. Players will go for what is needed to get higher ranking in match. Its not the players fault. Its PGI for forcing it. PGI stated they dont want people racing to the assualt or everybody use assualts. They want a mix. But they make changes to do just that. Before the change. LIghts did do good with spotting bonuses and others things. You still get rewareded for it in c-bills and xp but it is not part of the ranking anymore. When PGI makes changes its never slight. It always such a big change it swings from nerfed to op that quick.
Back to topic . Med should be used as skirmishers. Then heavy and assualts push the line and start to engage. Med could harass and flank to cause confusing and panic. They do have more armor then lights and have more speed then heavy and assualt. Plus they could be good engaging in boaters or support mechs after the line engages. I have seen med engage and seen the enemy start getting confused on targets. If you go back and forth from engaging and disengaging. Watch the enemy start going in different directions. Med are good when lights engage our boaters or assualts. Med is a purely support mech but can make a difference in winning or losing.

Edited by Major Scumbag, 19 April 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Ser Barristan]

A medium mech's role is to stoke your ego, pure and simple.

Its an unforgiving weight class to pilot, one that doesn't often get showered with loads of kill points. If it goes bad you're dead before you know it. Still the masochistic pilots who regularly run them have a stubborn sense of pride in their inferior mounts. That pride is fueled when, at the end of the match your medium racked up a slew of assists and the most damage. Because you had to fight tooth and nail for all that damage, no high alpha for you 50 tonner nor a 130+ kph ECM shroud, nope you had to do it all with an AC/20 backed by some small lasers powered by a STD 260.

That's why when these threads pop up pointing out how woeful the 50 tonners are you have a bunch of crazy medium jockeys claiming they're viable.

Because when we win we did it with nothing but 52 front armor and the hair on our chests.

[LordBraxton]

In topics like this Epeens will get in the way of reason every time.

"I do well in my medium sometimes therefore they are equal to an assault!"

Is the (lack of) logic I see over and over again.

Mediums are target practice to any decent player in a quality heavy\assault alpha build.

Anyone who can aim with an AC\40 or PPC\gauss combo will rip you apart even if you are moving ~120kph