201 replies to this topic

[Sorho]

It makes good cannon fodder.

[silentD11]

LordBraxton, on 19 April 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

In topics like this Epeens will get in the way of reason every time.

"I do well in my medium sometimes therefore they are equal to an assault!"

Is the (lack of) logic I see over and over again.

Mediums are target practice to any decent player in a quality heavy\assault alpha build.

Anyone who can aim with an AC\40 or PPC\gauss combo will rip you apart even if you are moving ~120kph

Mediums are fairly fast. A fast Centurion zombie build is useful. You can keep it slightly behind the main force in case it has to run back to block a cap. The zombie aspect of it means it can keep going for a long time. And it's fast enough that if you aren't capped you can haul it back to the main force and use it as cavalry.

Mediums are less useful when everybody is just lining up and playing TDM firing line. But if you're actually playing assault, they do have a point.

[Fut]

Ser Barristan, on 19 April 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

A medium mech's role is to stoke your ego, pure and simple.

Its an unforgiving weight class to pilot, one that doesn't often get showered with loads of kill points. If it goes bad you're dead before you know it. Still the masochistic pilots who regularly run them have a stubborn sense of pride in their inferior mounts. That pride is fueled when, at the end of the match your medium racked up a slew of assists and the most damage. Because you had to fight tooth and nail for all that damage, no high alpha for you 50 tonner nor a 130+ kph ECM shroud, nope you had to do it all with an AC/20 backed by some small lasers powered by a STD 260.

That's why when these threads pop up pointing out how woeful the 50 tonners are you have a bunch of crazy medium jockeys claiming they're viable.

Because when we win we did it with nothing but 52 front armor and the hair on our chests.

Love it. You're talking about my HBK-4G!

I know you're trying to make fun of this exact attitude, but:

There is a definitely sense of accomplishment in taking an underdog into a battle and succeeding, not really sure if it's possible to argue (successfully argue) against that.
I'd rather get my *** handed to me in my Hunch, than roll a bunch of people in a cheesebuild, but that might just be me.

Besides, the game's all borked at the moment. All the focus on Alpha-Builds, and only dropping in the heaviest of the Mechs is going to have to change at some point.

Training Instructor, on 19 April 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

This weekend there will be little point in piloting a medium unless you're willing to work extremely hard every game to optimize terrain and never ever put yourself out in the open where anyone can get a clean alpha on you.

Sounds like a great weekend to practice piloting a Medium if you ask me.

Edited by Fut, 19 April 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[Target Rich]

In the current environment....the assault/heavy pilot yells "pull...."

[Viper69]

MischiefSC, on 25 February 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Padding stats for assault mechs and 3Ls. And splatcats. And boomcats.

I love people who think medium mechs are stats for other mechs. I had a match where the entire enemy team misjudged me because I was in a founder hunchback. Needless to say I scored 850 damage and survived and we won. So maybe this was a fluke or maybe it wast but mediums are far from cannon fodder.

[Target Rich]

In the current environment....the assault/heavy pilot yells "pull...."

[PropagandaWar]

Chavette, on 25 February 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

They die fast.

right now thats very true. I turn a corner half my torsos missing and the arm along with it. About 2 weeks ago that wasnt the case.

[SirDubDub]

Ser Barristan, on 19 April 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

A medium mech's role is to stoke your ego, pure and simple.

Its an unforgiving weight class to pilot, one that doesn't often get showered with loads of kill points. If it goes bad you're dead before you know it. Still the masochistic pilots who regularly run them have a stubborn sense of pride in their inferior mounts. That pride is fueled when, at the end of the match your medium racked up a slew of assists and the most damage. Because you had to fight tooth and nail for all that damage, no high alpha for you 50 tonner nor a 130+ kph ECM shroud, nope you had to do it all with an AC/20 backed by some small lasers powered by a STD 260.

That's why when these threads pop up pointing out how woeful the 50 tonners are you have a bunch of crazy medium jockeys claiming they're viable.

Because when we win we did it with nothing but 52 front armor and the hair on our chests.

This is probably the most accurate post I have seen in this whole damned thread.

What do mediums do? Make their pilots feel like badasses when they succeed, and isn't that really what it's all about?

[Zakie Chan]

A medium mech is a paddle used to slap your face and prove that I dont need your dorky FOTM builds to be better than you.


Yen-lo Wang exponentially increases the lolfactor

[Jetfire]

Flankers
Hit and Run
Fire Support
Light Hunters
Heavy Scout

These are the 5 main roles.

The trick is to remember you are not an assault or heavy, nor are you a light. You carry solid firepower and don't draw everyone's attention. Move in and out of cover and combat as needed. Hide behind the brawlers and take your shots. Do anything but trade firepower with the other teams mechs.

[DeadlyNerd]

Blackfire1, on 25 February 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

I mess up heavies and play pop shots on assaults.

[Erata]

For now, Mediums are cakes on legs, frosted in C-Bills, that you carve slices out of with large lasers.

Edited by Erata, 19 April 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[armyof1]

SirDubDub, on 19 April 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

This is probably the most accurate post I have seen in this whole damned thread.

What do mediums do? Make their pilots feel like badasses when they succeed, and isn't that really what it's all about?

There are mechs way better to fulfill that role, just grab yourself a Spider-K or one of the slow-Ravens and you can try to be badass all day and fail miserably most of the time. Personally I just want mediums to be decent mechs instead of generally being oversized targets but with less armor and weapons than heavies.

[Keifomofutu]

In the current meta a medium mech in a match faces a similar situation to a new young inmate in a prison. Everywhere he goes the others are staring at him saying ,"boy you've got a pretty mouth." Someday once he works out for long enough every day he'll be a heavy or assault like the others. But not yet.

[Vaktor]

Im better at taking out stalkers with my Centi then my Cataphract simply because it brings the speed to the party...

Underestimate the Centi at your own peril.

Plus when they put some weight limits on drops it will change things quite a bit... I would rather have my friend and I in a Centurion over a single atlas any day.

[Keifomofutu]

Vaktor, on 19 April 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Im better at taking out stalkers with my Centi then my Cataphract simply because it brings the speed to the party...

Underestimate the Centi at your own peril.

Plus when they put some weight limits on drops it will change things quite a bit... I would rather have my friend and I in a Centurion over a single atlas any day.

Cent is one of the few mediums that has the ability with certain variants to move really really fast. All mediums are in dire need of that kind of speed. 90km/h just doesn't cut it anymore. You've gotta either be lighting fast or a tank these days. Vaguely fast flanker is just bait right now. Especially against multiple heavies that cruise at 80km/h

Edited by Keifomofutu, 19 April 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[Mawai]

Jade Kitsune, on 25 February 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

The role they're "Ment" to fill in the battletech lore is operation buddy to lights and heavier units. They're ment to have the speed to be one of the first mechs on the frontline, the armor to take a few hits while dealing out their own, then they're ment to fold back in with the Heavy's and Assaults to provide additional punch while the bigger machines deal out the real hurt. Mediums provide something of a backbone force.

The ideal medium should be quick, and decently armored with some ok firepower, nothing stellar, they're jacks of all trades. Ment to lay out hurt, then as I said, fold back into the pack and let the bigger stuff shine on what they beat up.

But the problem with this idea in Mechwarrior:Online is everyone wants the kill, no one wants to just put some damage on something and ignore it after... the KILL is king for players. And that's the wrong mindset from an in-universe perspective. but as a game, what can you do?

Actually ... this is the role that the Hunchback-4SP and to some extent the 4P perform exceptionally well at. They are fast enough (about 90kph) to get out of the front lines and fire from ~200m into the melee providing additional fire to support the heavies and assaults while usually being able to effectively deal with lights (except possibly the ECM ones if they are equipped with SSRM). It would be nice if they were slightly faster for the role ... but otherwise they do it quite well.

Trebs can fill a similar niche while some of the cents are better brawlers ... Hunchbacks with XL seem pretty vulnerable but this may not be the same for other mediums ... certainly the cicada is very effective with an XL and I have seen some Cents and Trebs with XL as well.

Edited by Mawai, 19 April 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Blackfire1]

being forced to install heat sinks because our engine only carries 8 tends to be a real killjoy. I HATE the engine system in its current iteration. It ***** over soo much.

[Culler]

With the missile nerf mediums are in a rough spot generally since they no longer have a strong, light weapon to use. I managed to get a 9.5 KDR in my TBT-3C going 128 KPH and dropping SRMs into backsides, entirely solo queue. Fast mediums are still solid and have the role of scout hunter/scout, it's the poor hunchbacks and most centurions that are undergunned, underarmored, and don't have the speed. Even an XL 275 engine for the regular centurions only takes them to 98 KPH which a Dragon can exceed with more armor and weaponry. Centurions had the advantage of a bunch of missiles but missiles are in a bad place right now.

So in my opinion right now mediums should go fast or stay home because heavies do it better. They're still fun and rewarding but I'd say they're challenging to excel with, especially without strict weight class matchmaking where an enemy might get an Atlas in exchange for your lowly hunchback.

[Bagheera]

Part of the problem with this conversation (and the medium class) is that there are 2 different games:

One is the 8-man competitive queue, where min-maxing will always, ALWAYS, rule the day. Period. Whatever the min/max designs-de-jour happen to be, they will ALWAYS dominate the competitive queue. It's the way PvP works in any game where "build" is a relevant concept. Without class matching (at least) there's really nothing a medium can do, in this version of the game, that a light (speed) or heavy (firepower/armor) can't do better. I say that as a someone who loves driving mediums. You'd have to be the Chuck Norris of MW:O to make a slow medium viable in the competitive queue. And only a couple rungs down from there for a fast one.

For the rest of us, Culler nailed it. A slow medium in the current state of MW:O is a (with some exceptions granted for pilot skill) dead medium. I can't think of any good Hunchie build with an engine smaller than a 250, and a Trebbie (as much as I love mine) is really better off in the 280-325 territory, with the 3C being the "Go Fast" model and I prefer the 350 in mine. It can be a difficult role to play, but viable in the right hands. "Stick and move" is the order of the day for the medium.

Flanking may be moot in the world of the 8-man (while I personally doubt that, I cannot speak from experience and a few in this thread have implied/stated that is the case, so who am I to argue), but for the rest of us average players it's a viable tactic. Too many big mechs let themselves get isolated from their team in their quest for the perfect sniping postion and vulnerable to backstabbing from flankers. With a good balance of speed/firepower/armor you can just flat out bully light mechs if they find you flanking, or are trying for your base.

Also, lots of people complain about "cap-warrior." The fast medium can RTB from just about anywhere and return in time to pick apart that pesky little capper.

Edited by Bagheera, 19 April 2013 - 01:33 PM.