152 replies to this topic

[SlXSlXSlX]

No. No no no.

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

And if you only have 5-7 friends to play with you have to choose exactly which of them you want to play with. Surely 'lone wolves' don't have that problem, they don't have friends.

You have another choice, make a new friend. Go on comstar, or NG NG ts, and ask arouind to fill your last slot or slots.

You tell pubs to get on ts and make friends, but your already on comms and can easily fill a slot or 3 from those servers, unless they truely are pub farmers.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 26 February 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

they don't need TS. I didn't use it all weekend for the tourney. They just need to accept that in a team oriented game that the group with the better cohesion will win.

We want in game Voice too. Having to maintain a TS3 service for Murphy's has its costs it seems. We are always donating to keep open our own server in TS3.

[Aym]

Galenit, on 26 February 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

(snip) i dont want to go on coms with this kids, half my age, talking ****. Just want to log in, do a few games for fun and thats it.

I don't know if this attitude is based on an assumption from experience or other people's prejudice that you've learned from, but the VAST majority, like 99% of the people, playing this game are not kids, half your age, or talking shi*t. I frequently log into my group's ts3 server, find a pick-up group w/in a minute, and play a few games before logging back off. The idea that all gamers using voice communication online are spoiled children that spew hate over their headsets is so wildly inaccurate when it comes to computer gaming. Xbox live and the Playstation Network suffer from this, but MWO does not. Please stop spreading this view as it discourages new players from seeking out and using the single best method of improving their understanding of the game, enjoyment of the game, and skill at the game.
P.S. In b4 you say "premades =/= skill" I mean that by talking to veteran players you can learn to play skillfully much more quickly than otherwise.

[Critical Fumble]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 February 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

they don't need TS. I didn't use it all weekend for the tourney. They just need to accept that in a team oriented game that the group with the better cohesion will win.

We want in game Voice too. Having to maintain a TS3 service for Murphy's has its costs it seems. We are always donating to keep open our own server in TS3.

That's the thing worth noting - the pug teams that actually tried to work together CRUSHED the ones that were trying to play it like a solo-player game.

On your TS bit, have you tried C3? They apparently do rooms for free, but I haven't tested it out myself yet.

[Chrithu]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

The last poll about the topic came out to about 30% premades and 70% PUGs or thereabouts.

If the poll was the one I remember then that outcome is not the correct one. The poll asked: Do you PUG only, Premade only or both? The two only fraction were both at about 30% and 40% answered both. And you can NOT simply add the "both" fraction to the PUG only to make your case.

Does that mean you're wrong and PUGs are not the majority? No I still think the majority are pUGs, but there is no way to reliably prove that. Especially not with a poll in this forum, because the majority of PUGs is casuals that aren't active in the forums. Which again I have no proof for other than the experience and thrown out numbers from similar games. And the means to reliably prove this are not in my hands.

Edited by Jason Parker, 26 February 2013 - 05:25 AM.

[Galenit]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

1 in 2 means that half of the teams you play are premades and half of the teams you play are PUGs, which in turn means that that number of premades = number of PUGs

You have said 3 different things until now with your numbers ...
If you use numbers it should be more consistent.

Please type your statement again, try to say clearly what you want and give the source of the numbers you use for it, then we can talk again.

[PhoenixFire55]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

So you're unaware that casuals/solo players are the majority in nearly every MMO and MOG in the gaming world. Including this one.

The last poll about the topic came out to about 30% premades and 70% PUGs or thereabouts.

So yes, majority. Lets see your citations.

70% PUGs. 100% of those 70% PUGs do PUG.
30% premades. 33% of those 30% premades are doing 8 vs 8 and are excluded from the 'PUG-que'.
20% remaining premades. 50% of those 20% premades are trying to sync-drop.
10% remaing sync-dropping premades. 50% chance to end up in same game, 25% chance to end up on the same side.
2.5% remaing premades had sync-dropped into one team to stomp PUGs.

2.5% vs 70% is about 3% chance that you are facing an 8-man sync-dropped premade. Without bringing the chance that the other team has premades as well approx 3 out of 100 games you play are PUG-stomps. If you are getting stomped in half of your games you are mostly getting stomped by other PUGs, and sync-dropping premades have nothing to do with that.

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

You're a vile little imp aren't you?

No, I'm a big phat imp. But for some reason I have friends to drop with and you do not.

[Joseph Mallan]

Critical Fumble, on 26 February 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

That's the thing worth noting - the pug teams that actually tried to work together CRUSHED the ones that were trying to play it like a solo-player game.

On your TS bit, have you tried C3? They apparently do rooms for free, but I haven't tested it out myself yet.

Yup, the best team wins. Doesn't matter how they are the best team, just that they are.
No on C3. I suggested it, but since the guys have this up and running good....

[CygnusX7]

I blame voip integration.
Recently gone to the dark side and enjoy this game 10x's as much.
Made some friends and am having a blasty, pew, pew, blast.

[Joseph Mallan]

Talking with someone while blasting multi million C-bill war machines IS much funner than listening to the thrum of your engine only.

[Thirdstar]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

70% PUGs. 100% of those 70% PUGs do PUG.
30% premades. 33% of those 30% premades are doing 8 vs 8 and are excluded from the 'PUG-que'.
20% remaining premades. 50% of those 20% premades are trying to sync-drop.
10% remaing sync-dropping premades. 50% chance to end up in same game, 25% chance to end up on the same side.
2.5% remaing premades had sync-dropped into one team to stomp PUGs.

2.5% vs 70% is about 3% chance that you are facing an 8-man sync-dropped premade. Without bringing the chance that the other team has premades as well approx 3 out of 100 games you play are PUG-stomps. If you are getting stomped in half of your games you are mostly getting stomped by other PUGs, and sync-dropping premades have nothing to do with that.

I said citations, not numbers pulled from your nether regions.

Here I can do it too, 100% of all premade eats babies. 100% of all PUGs murder kittens. 33% of premades worship the Old Gods, but only 40% of PUGs eat bacon.

Edited by Thirdstar, 26 February 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 February 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Talking with someone while blasting multi million C-bill war machines IS much funner than listening to the thrum of your engine only.

A true lone wolf has a Mech Mix they blast while they run solo. For some, their jobs force all day small chat, and a little silence/hard rock, as you explode things in the face, can be a breath of fresh air.

PS, I still want to challenge you in the Solaris Arena.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 26 February 2013 - 05:43 AM.

[Chrithu]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 February 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

they don't need TS. I didn't use it all weekend for the tourney. They just need to accept that in a team oriented game that the group with the better cohesion will win.

We want in game Voice too. Having to maintain a TS3 service for Murphy's has its costs it seems. We are always donating to keep open our own server in TS3.

I assume this was in answer to me.

Joseph Mallan, on 26 February 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

They just need to accept that in a team oriented game that the group with the better cohesion will win.

^ This is exactly the point most Solo Droppers/PUGs are making. They are aware that cohesion is key. All they are saying is that it is quite hard to be the team with the better cohesion when your means of communication are crippled by being forced to chat. You can anounce strategies via chat, you can relay scouting info. But what you cannot dot, but is key in quite a lot of matches, is anounce a focus target during a brawl. And exactly that is the point at which a PUG loses against a premade team: When the premade team rolls in amassed it doesn't matter much wether the PUG Team is amassed too or not. The mere fact that the premade will use focused fire on anounced targets to chew through their group is the doom for the PUG Team.

In addition most PUGs do not even put up with the chat anymore. They follow standart plans on every map. It's like a gamble: Follow a given strategy from start to end and see if it works out or not. Changes of plan midmatch are a rare sight. This is another major setback, which I've learned during the tournament. The guys from the premades just know more strategies and react with a lot more purpose and speed to new situations. Which is a matter of training. PUG strategy mostly is: Follow the guy that moves first.

[Terror Teddy]

Ragor, on 26 February 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

Sidenote:
Yes, the scoreboard tells everyhing. Like the deciding light mech pilot who one the match for us by forcing the enemy to split forces. Since he was simply busy kiting them and made no points. But still: He won the match.
Or the LRM boat, which is only focussing on flushing out the enemy or force them into cover while the rest of the team flanks them. Ok, he did waste 90% of his missiles on rocks, the enemy was unable to move, but he is on the lower end of the scoreboard. What a noob.

Yea, that's the sad part with the EXP mechanics right now.

It's either "Capture" or the "Kill/assist/damage" while some of the very important parts very seldom show up as a gratifying reward.

A scout running interference and basically having the enemy shoot wildly for 20 seconds can be a lifesaver - ditto for supressive area bombardment.

It's a system that really needs to be fleshed out since you very seldom get huge amount of points with the little guys unless you manage to go very combat oriented.

It's damn fun but not very rewarding point wise.

[ferranis]

After people read phoenix` posts i realy wonder why the hate against premades/him. Cant point my finger on it...

[Joseph Mallan]

Jason, Forced to chat? Chat is the next to last option on the list of communication. C3 is semi integrated into the game (switch it on or off) Then there is the 3rd party chats that are semi supported by the game ComStar, NG:NG, Have a in game friends list? You can make a quick team of your friends on line and go blasting.

Chat is the last resort for Comms. or at least is is how I see it. Right below Command chair. We actually had a player or two take command. 2 players (including me) listened.

[Terror Teddy]

We,, I could counter "Why the hate for PUG's" but that would be pointless.

I would love a lobby as soon as possible with options like:

-Max Mech Weight
-Max Mech Class [Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault]
-Teams / Independents
-Deathmatch Arena
-Aerial Combat [Arena match with required JJ and hovering point icons to jump to)
-Capture the Flag
-Colliseum Match

etc...

[Joseph Mallan]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

I said citations, not numbers pulled from your nether regions. Here I can do it too, 100% of all premade eats babies. 100% of all PUGs murder kittens. 33% of premades worship the Old Gods, but only 40% of PUGs eat bacon.

Do eggs count as baby eating? cause if they do more people are baby eaterrs than just up Premades.

[SlXSlXSlX]

See teh man at teh beginning of this video, being handed keys. That is the solo players, being handed the keys to freedom from 4 man dominance in the pre ELO matching system, ie no matching system. What follows is how that experience has made us solo players feel.



ELO is a good thing, and so is balance. Its working, no matter how the pub farmers try to argue it is not. Now it is we, the wolves, not th e4 mans that get to farm. We get to farm the players whos ELO far outpaces their actual skill. It makes us so happy, we just want to sing and dance about it all day.

Sidenote: Post #61 of this thread had a major typo, a misquote, which has been fixed. Please check it out.

Thats post #61 of this thread.

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 26 February 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[Chrithu]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 February 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Jason, Forced to chat? Chat is the next to last option on the list of communication. C3 is semi integrated into the game (switch it on or off) Then there is the 3rd party chats that are semi supported by the game ComStar, NG:NG, Have a in game friends list? You can make a quick team of your friends on line and go blasting.

Chat is the last resort for Comms. or at least is is how I see it. Right below Command chair. We actually had a player or two take command. 2 players (including me) listened.

Well on this level of argumenting I can't really answer anything anymore because obviously you aren't willing to accept that there is a portion of this community for which the 3rd party tools are not an option for whatever reason (and wether or not that reason appears valid to you or not). C3 also is working just for groups that grouped up prior to the match. Any Solo dropper matched into your team is out of the loop.

In a PUG match the only means of communicating with the whole team is chat. And that is crippled communication as I tried to explain before.

When C3 is integrated the way it should be, meaning the whole team can listen no matter if they were grouped pre-match or not, I am the first one to be using it.