156 replies to this topic

[Aethon]

The Exiled, on 26 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

What we have here is a case of 'skilled' players thinking they are actually a lot better than they are...

If this was directed at me, I think you misunderstand what I was saying. I did not start the thread and lay my KDR or W/L on the table. I came here and said that, no matter how well I play, it feel like it is not making any difference. It feels like a roll of the dice, rather than a skill-based game, to me at least...and I was wondering if I was the only one who felt that way.

[PhoenixFire55]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

The person you quoted wants his old 90% win rate and the attached C-Bill/EXP reward back. Nothing you can say is going to change his mind.

He doesn't want a challenge, he just wants to win.

And just how does the fact that 95% of my games are in solo-PUG mode explains that I only want to win?

If organized groups could drop with and against people that they want to drop with and against you'd never seen any of them dropping vs PUGs. We don't need all the whine that people like you produce.

[armyof1]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

I've never said I don't enjoy those. All I'm saying is that when EVERY game turns out to be one of those close ones and you KNOW beforehands that it is gonna be like that and you are dropping against SAME people over and over and over then the enjoyement completely goes away. The whole thrill of haveing a close match is no more with ELO.

I wish I had it as good as you, because what I find most boring when playing MWO are those pointless games when you're almost certain you'll either win big or lose badly within the first minute of the match. Those games I find to be pretty much a waste of time as only at least somewhat even games I think are worth playing. So yeah what ELO is trying to establish might not be what you want out of MWO, but for me that would be great as soon as it's starting to work well enough.

[Thirdstar]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

If organized groups could drop with and against people that they want to drop with and against you'd never seen any of them dropping vs PUGs. We don't need all the whine that people like you produce.

The only person I see whining in the whole thread (and that other one) is you.

Waaaaaaaah I want my win rate back! Those damn PUGs are actually beating me! NO FAIR!

[The Exiled]

Aethon, on 26 February 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

If this was directed at me, I think you misunderstand what I was saying. I did not start the thread and lay my KDR or W/L on the table. I came here and said that, no matter how well I play, it feel like it is not making any difference. It feels like a roll of the dice, rather than a skill-based game, to me at least...and I was wondering if I was the only one who felt that way.

If you have played well, then you have made a difference, if you lost, the difference was not enough. That is not the same thing as not having made a difference. The players on the other team made more of a difference and won. That will happen.

As the ELO has more data and players are adjusted you will not meet players who are actually far above you in skill even if your stats suggest otherwise. Then your contribution will have a bigger impact vs those you play and you will win based on whether you have a poor/good/great game, this is as it should be.

The comment was not directed at you personally, but many players are going to be frustrated as their stats nose dive as a result of losing more than they are used to and blame it on poor systems like the ELO, only the best players are going to maintain those very high stats as pug farming become more difficult.

[Thirdstar]

Reposting this

Actually no. Quite the opposite. Previously a very skilled player was able to swing the match because others on both teams were less skilled.

Now, given that the MM is working correctly, since everyone is of similar skill the individual ability to effect match outcome is lessened, not increased.

[Aethon]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

Reposting this

Actually no. Quite the opposite. Previously a very skilled player was able to swing the match because others on both teams were less skilled.

Now, given that the MM is working correctly, since everyone is of similar skill the individual ability to effect match outcome is lessened, not increased.

This is my only gripe with ELO (lack of weight matching aside, of course)...you have definitely put it into better words than I did.

[Lyrik]

So, a Pugstomber inflated his score. Now he gets teamed with players with lesser ELO because he and his team have an high ELO.

And our Pugstomber with little skill but high ELO wonders why his team is losing a lot ot matches

Seems to me that ELO is working like a charm xD

[Thirdstar]

Aethon, on 26 February 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

This is my only gripe with ELO (lack of weight matching aside, of course)...you have definitely put it into better words than I did.

I'm afraid that it's an inevitable side effect of PGIs attempt to make the matchmaker more fair and challenging.

IF and that's a big if, the implementation of Clan mechs is something like matching 5 Clanners vs 8 Inner Sphere, then you might have some of the experience you're looking for.

[Joseph Mallan]

Aethon, on 26 February 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

When I am consistently scoring 2-3 kills and 500 or better damage and some assists, as well as the 2-3 guys I drop with, it feels pretty pointless to even try, when we still lose more than half the time. I am not talking about losing to cappers, I am talking about all 4-5 pugs on my team just dying without doing anything. All I want is to feel like I am making some sort of difference.

Anyway, this is just my opinion, but...am I the only one? Also, I apologize if this comes off as an angry rant...although I am feeling more disappointed than angry at the moment, lol.

If yer PUGging you really cannot worry about the Team's results. If you did the job you listed, you did good and should feel a sense of accomplishment. If the team does not work together it will not win. I tried to stick with an assault or a solid heavy Mech all weekend, I am a slow typist so I can't give suggestions in combat, i try to follow what everyone else is killing. Or focus on the Big threat of the match to try to remove it.

So if you are PUGging and landing the results you do. Don't sweat the team results, you did your part to help the team win.

[Aethon]

Moonsavage, on 26 February 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

OP is a ******* ****.

Are we playing Wheel of Fortune? If so, how many vowels do I get to start with?

[Thirdstar]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 February 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

If yer PUGging you really cannot worry about the Team's results. If you did the job you listed, you did good and should feel a sense of accomplishment. If the team does not work together it will not win. I tried to stick with an assault or a solid heavy Mech all weekend, I am a slow typist so I can't give suggestions in combat, i try to follow what everyone else is killing. Or focus on the Big threat of the match to try to remove it.

So if you are PUGging and landing the results you do. Don't sweat the team results, you did your part to help the team win.

All I've ever wanted was close matches. Anything but the old 8-0 and 8-1.

And Elo has delivered that. Hard fought battles that look more like 8-5, 8-6 and those really rare 8-7.

I've seen more 'Nicely fought', 'Woo awesome fight' , 'Good game, no really' in ALL chat in the last few days than I've seen in 3 months.

[Aethon]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

All I've ever wanted was close matches. Anything but the old 8-0 and 8-1.

And Elo has delivered that. Hard fought battles that look more like 8-5, 8-6 and those really rare 8-7.

I've seen more 'Nicely fought', 'Woo awesome fight' , 'Good game, no really' in ALL chat in the last few days than I've seen in 3 months.

The thing is, while in this thread, I have been playing...and every single match has been 7-8 kills on one side, whichever side won. No close matches; it is a steamroll every time.

I just hope it gets better soon.

[Thirdstar]

Aethon, on 26 February 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

The thing is, while in this thread, I have been playing...and every single match has been 7-8 kills on one side, whichever side won. No close matches; it is a steamroll every time.

I just hope it gets better soon.

I hope so too. I should also point out that different weight classes have different personal elo scores, or at least that what one Dev comment suggested.

My Medium games are a little easier than my Assault games.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Thirdstar is right, and im glad hes sharing the burden of arguing against the bads, not bad as in bad @ mechs, but bad as in, wants to farm pubs and enjoy 8/10 matches ending in their favor kinda bad.

Aethon, on 26 February 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

The thing is, while in this thread, I have been playing...and every single match has been 7-8 kills on one side, whichever side won. No close matches; it is a steamroll every time.

I just hope it gets better soon.

Your just outright lying, and no one can stop you from doing it I guess, but we know it just the same.

Read this thread.

http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry1953278

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 26 February 2013 - 05:15 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

The Exiled, on 26 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Skilled players will continue to win more and earn more than unskilled players. A skilled player will influence every match they are in, it might not always be enough to win but they will have played thier part. Unskilled players never influence the battle so are nearly always dependant on the skilled players. They could end up on the losing team all the time if the other teams skilled players are just a bit bettter.

THE most skilled players will. Skilled players that are not in the 5% ELO elite will be matched between themselves. They will not earn any more then anyone else outside that 5% elite group. Same way for 'unskilled' players, they are matched between themselves, meaning that some of them will actually influence their matches (unless both teams stand still and do nothing), doing that they'll earn a bit more but their ELO will go up, level of play in next matches will increase, they will be bottom of the list and earn less and ELO will go down. On average they'll be earning same exp/c-bills as anybody else with only exception of the top 100 or so players in the game.

The Exiled, on 26 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

What we have here is a case of 'skilled' players thinking they are actually a lot better than they are becasue a little group play and a tiny bit of skill went a long way to beat uncoordinated pugs. The skilled players are still going to win, why becasue they really are better than you. Those with inflated stats will see their stats drop, not becasue the system makes it unfair for them but becasue in truth they are not as good as those stats suggest. A bitter pill to swallow, but there you have it. So suck it up, and improve to become the skilled player you thought you were and you will find you start to win a lot more games in your 4 man group.

Players base their evaluation of their own skill on PUG games they play. If you end up top of your team in like 80+% of them you are skilled player.

[The Exiled]

Thirdstar, on 26 February 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

Reposting this

Actually no. Quite the opposite. Previously a very skilled player was able to swing the match because others on both teams were less skilled.

Now, given that the MM is working correctly, since everyone is of similar skill the individual ability to effect match outcome is lessened, not increased.

i disagree, while the margin of skill disparity is less, the more skilled player will still have influence, you might not be soloing a match but the tiny differences in choices will make the difference between winning and losing. Winning will be about making less mistakes and being in the right place at the right time to make the small positive difference required to win. It might not make you feel like the ultimate hero but those that get it right more often will win more often. Players will be of similar skill, but not identical skill

[Aethon]

SlXSlXSlX, on 26 February 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

Thirdstar is right, and im glad hes sharing the burden of arguing against the bads, not bad as in bad @ mechs, but bad as in, wants to farm pubs and enjoy 8/10 matches ending in their favor kinda bad.



Your just outright lying, and no one can stop you from doing it I guess, but we know it just the same.

Read this thread.

http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry1953278

I am lying? Please explain how I am lying. You quoted me as saying that all my recent matches have been landslides, one way or the other...which is a fact. Every single match I have played in the last couple hours has been 7-1 or 8-0. I think enough people have the same experience to know I am not sitting here spewing false statistics to make my point. I do not need to.

[SlXSlXSlX]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 February 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Players base their evaluation of their own skill on PUG games they play. If you end up top of your team in like 80+% of them you are skilled player.

You can play very selfishly, completely boning your team, in fact hamstringing them, and end up with top score. That does not mean your good. That is not how good is measured. But by all means, continue.

[Thirdstar]

The Exiled, on 26 February 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

i disagree, while the margin of skill disparity is less, the more skilled player will still have influence, you might not be soloing a match but the tiny differences in choices will make the difference between winning and losing. Winning will be about making less mistakes and being in the right place at the right time to make the small positive difference required to win. It might not make you feel like the ultimate hero but those that get it right more often will win more often. Players will be of similar skill, but not identical skill

That's pretty much what I said. I said lessened, not eliminated.