209 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Helbourne, on 26 February 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Why does everyone ...

Ahem. Everyone?

[ChrisOrange]

Cat's already been nerfed. We can only do 315 XL.

Here's the real answer: Stop making torso twist limits altogether. Stalker for example might as well be playing this sim shooter on rails. Can hardly move it. If there's any difference on how much the mechs can twist it should be by 5 degrees and no more.

Also I wouldn't mind just letting all mechs twist at the same speed which includes arms...make engine speed only effect how fast your mech can run...but that one's up for controversy.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 26 February 2013 - 10:22 PM.

[Mystere]

Garfuncle, on 26 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

Beta: we want to be concerned about balance.

Beta: If I can create a reliable counter to it, then maybe we have acceptable balance.

[Rhent]

ChrisOrange, on 26 February 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

Cat's already been nerfed. We can only do 315 XL.

Here's the real answer: Stop making torso twist limits altogether. Stalker for example might as well be playing this sim shooter on rails. Can hardly move it. If there's any difference on how much the mechs can twist it should be by 5 degrees and no more.

Also I wouldn't mind just letting all mechs twist at the same speed which includes arms...make engine speed only affect how fast your mech can run...but that one's up for controversy.

Torso twist, arm pitch, engine limits, JJ's and weapon hard points were all put in place to give you the opportunity to truly master different chassis and different playing styles. I like the difficulty and easiness differences in the chassis myself. You want massed focus fire the stalker is great but when a light comes you have to fight it significantly different than you would with an Atlas or Awesome.

[ChrisOrange]

Rhent, on 26 February 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

Torso twist, arm pitch, engine limits, JJ's and weapon hard points were all put in place to give you the opportunity to truly master different chassis and different playing styles.

I think you're right which is extra frightening/sad to me lol. If the game were fundamentally designed differently then you could do away with a lot of that stuff.

Maybe it could feel better to me if the tolerances were changed. Like there would be a difference between 300XL and 215 standard but not nearly as drastic as we have right now...just to tighten up that range a little could be interesting.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 26 February 2013 - 10:32 PM.

[Sean von Steinike]

urmamasllama, on 26 February 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

the cat cheese builds are symptoms of a bigger problem with map balance. the problem is that too many of the current maps are made for brawling once we get more wide open maps like alpine the cheese builds should taper off. besides the A1 is much stronger when you put a balanced build on it

Unless the whiners who refuse to balance their builds are allowed to choose mechs to match to the map.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

SpartanFiredog317, on 26 February 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

...Cut the engine rating down to a 250, and the twist down to about 70 degrees, and SRMS/SSRMS will be completely balanced. Its not even the fact that Catapults can boat every weapon in the game, the problem is they can do so better than just about any mech in the game. LRMS AC20s PPCs SRMS/SSRMS.... all with close enough to a 360 arc of fire, max armor, and the speed of a medium. Cutting their speed and fire arc will give them enough disadvantage to be in line with everyone else, but still let the payload be deadly if they can get position.

So the fact they can do a 90 point alpha, more than a 100 ton mech can do, in a single shot isnt the problem?!? Really?!?

[Petrothian Tong]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 26 February 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

So the fact they can do a 90 point alpha, more than a 100 ton mech can do, in a single shot isnt the problem?!? Really?!?

I can do much more damage from 300 meters away, especially now PPC have lower heat now.


and the zoom module (the 2 million C bill one) s horriblely broken with ER PPC on the old maps...
you can take out 1 broke's front armour in less than 1 minute, before he get too far from cap or realize what hit him



edit: with the added bonus of they can't really fight back. unless they have another guy with ER PPC and zoom mod build in.

Edited by Petrothian Tong, 26 February 2013 - 10:50 PM.

[Rhent]

ChrisOrange, on 26 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

I think you're right which is extra frightening/sad to me lol. If the game were fundamentally designed differently then you could do away with a lot of that stuff.

Maybe it could feel better to me if the tolerances were changed. Like there would be a difference between 300XL and 215 standard but not nearly as drastic as we have right now...just to tighten up that range a little could be interesting.

First: go to this site: http://mwowiki.org/w...Commando_COM-2D
Second: check out the stats

You can quickly see a list of all mechs hard points, speed differences, turn radius, pitch and yaw. Its like a smorgasborg of really good MWO knowledge. Stuff lilke that makes the game good. Hell even mechs that only have one missile tube are in the game, you just don't get that type of customization in earlier gen Mechwarriors.

[Hastega]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 26 February 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

So the fact they can do a 90 point alpha, more than a 100 ton mech can do, in a single shot isnt the problem?!? Really?!?

You're kidding, right? Here's an 85 ton mech with a 120 point alpha. Alpha doesn't mean jack.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fc69fc5ec9e6526

[Petrothian Tong]

Hastega, on 26 February 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

You're kidding, right? Here's an 85 ton mech with a 120 point alpha. Alpha doesn't mean jack.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fc69fc5ec9e6526

it means something to people who touch themselves to high numbers....


but I always wondered if the people who complain about them ever played a fully SRM6 A2..

that 90 point alpha over heat your mechs like crazy, after 2 salvo or so even with max double heatsink/low weight engine

it overheats waaaaaay faster than my ER PPC builds... *which does more sustained dmg. and from much much further away.

[Clay Pigeon]

Give the stalker the torso twist degrees you take from the catapult. It could use them.

[Adrienne Vorton]

.........

no

[Viper69]

EgoSlayer, on 26 February 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

Because in TT the Catapult can fire everything in its "arms" directly behind itself. Since that can't be duplicated in game, it has high twist to emulate that ability. The Stalker can't, and thus isn't granted that high twist ability in MWO.

Love to see your sources BTW for the last two sentences.

Any mech with no hand and lower arm actuators could do that arm flip. There is also tho optional rule for people who didnt use the arm flip to mount a couple launchers facing the rear like one madcat variant. So again why cant the stalker rotate as far? Or more to the question. Why can it not rotate as far as other mechs period even if not to the extremes the catapult was? Or was the catapult a mistake in design they cant take back now? Because again all mechs had the same range of motion.

Adrienne Vorton, on 27 February 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

.........

no

……yes

[Andross Deverow]

Viper69, on 26 February 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

I dont understand why the stalker doesnt have remarkable twisting ability like the catapult. The reason the catapult was given fast twisting and a high twist arc was because of it not having functional arms. Well the Stalker is in the same boat yet its twist is reduced to a craptastic amount and its twist speed is lacking. So in my opinion either reduce the catapults twist or increase the stalkers degree of twist.

Because it has an alpha strike ability unmached in game......

[Andross Deverow]

SpartanFiredog317, on 26 February 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

....86 Kmph is faster than almost all assaults, most heavies and many mediums.... combined with the 360 arc of fire. cover is easy. And its silly that the Catapult is the only mech in the game that has so many cheese builds.

The Catapult is/was the Bread and Butter mech of the inner sphere. There is/was reasons for it, it is highly adaptable and mobile which made it an all pourpose mech. I can tell you from expierience that the catapult is an easy mech to kill it needs no nerffing. The twist allows for maybe a few extra seconds of life before you get cored it allows you to attempt to turn away quickly to avoid a headshot in the HUGE hitbox of the cockpit. So.. its speed and twist ability is offset by how ridiculously easy they are to ear and core.

Regards

[Tank]

Just...

[Sheraf]

I don't want my catapults to become mini stalkers.

[Darknight99]

For the record I will say that when I see a splat cat I scream kill it with fire.

I primarily drive a C1 with 2x lrm15's and 4 med lasers. The lasers are for close range protection. If I sit back and fire missles as support like I am suppose to do I have lights who hunt me down.My twist allows me to defend myself from lights who will often circle me. Lights high speed make them hard to kill as you all know. My speed often allows me to pick up and move at a moments notice. I do not take off and chase others down because I will be focus fired in an instant.

Complain about splat cats all you want. The reason I dislike them is because people are asking pgi to nerf all catapults because of one. Those that ask for this do not seem to know or want to understand why the twist is useful to the catapult.
As i have said before my first mech was a stalker. I Sold it and bought a c1 do to the c1's hard points. I enjoyed the torso twist because the stalkers twist is so very limited.


People please try and realize that by screaming bloody murder on all catapults you will ruin the mech for people who dont use streakcats or splat cats. Will you stay behind to defend me from the lights circling?

Not everyone in this game wants to brawl. I certainly do not like to brawl. I enjoy my team mates calling out for fire support to soften up a target or raining hell down on a splat cat so that its nearly dead by the time it gets to someone.



Oh and for the record I have only been killed by one splat cat. Its this post that have made it a goal to not let splat cats kill me.
I get out of dodge when I see them coming. It sounds something like this "Oh sh*t splat cat, gotta go" and i get my butt movin.

Also people like the focus fire me I dont know if they mistake me for a splat cat or what but it seems like people ignore other mechs right in from of them and target me. Down in seconds I go.

As for the heat shot topic. I peak over hills and get blasted in the head. They rarely head shot me because I back up. They do hit me in the head and rather easy. I imagine that if I would have stayed there my head would be torn off. I also get shot in the ears a lot So i'm disabled rather quickly.

So I guess all im saying is that catapults by nature aren't overly powerful mechs and we should really think about how we are hurting all variants of the mech's before we call for a blanket nerf on all of a certain type.


P.s sorry about the super long post. I didn't realize I had written that much till later.

Edited by Darknight99, 27 February 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Viper69]

Andross Deverow, on 27 February 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Because it has an alpha strike ability unmached in game......

So based on your assessment any future mech that fields a higher alpha damage should have even less of a torso twist range? With all due respect your reason really will end up with a mech with no torso range at all eventually. Why are no other mechs with less Alpha than the catapult have a wider torso range than it? (here is a hint, you cannot use potential damage output as a factor in torso range unless you want to play it the other way too)So really your reason is not a reason at all but an excuse. Also the Catapult chassis has been the most imbalanced chassis since closed beta and probably longer and unless they curb it now early on instead of letting it continue to be a crutch for people the worse its going to get in the future if they try to change it then.