209 replies to this topic

[Jestun]

shintakie, on 02 March 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

Considerin I pilot a Cicada, yes, yes my alpha is lower than that of a cats head. His alpha is enough to one shot me. All it takes for me to be killed by a splat cat is for me to take a single bad turn and for him to have a pulse.

Even disregardin that, you're now at a impasse and it becomes a game of who was more twitch reflexes. The Splat cat, which can 1 shot pretty much any mech under 60 tons with a single alpha unless they go abnormally high on the front armor or the splat cats a bad shot. Or the other person who has to probably deal with convergence since most likely they're backin an arm mounted weapon and a torso mounted weapon.

2A has 30 alpha with 6 medium lasers, 2B has 25 with 5 medium lasers, 3M has 20 with 4 medium lasers.

I've ignored ballistic as I don't play ballistic light / mediums so don't know which weapons I would load.

But considering the head armour maxes at 18, I'd dispute your claims unless you are purposely using a build with low damage.

:edit:

Of course, this is only discussing the position where the splatcat has the most advantage, I can see why you would want to only discuss that as it makes you seem more correct but lets also discuss what happens when you meet a splatcat as 600m range.

Edited by Jestun, 02 March 2013 - 03:34 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Yokaiko, on 02 March 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

You should drive a faster mech

You mean in MW:O, we shouldn't use mechs heavier than 65 tons?

[Jestun]

MustrumRidcully, on 02 March 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

You mean in MW:O, we shouldn't use mechs heavier than 65 tons?

You can use whatever you like, but each different option has different advantages and disadvantages.

[Yokaiko]

MustrumRidcully, on 02 March 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

You mean in MW:O, we shouldn't use mechs heavier than 65 tons?

I have a phact that goes 87 and a pair of awesomes that are 86kph. I don't really use Cats anymore, for anything much less an A1.

I've died to one exactly once in the last week and that was grinding up a -9M.


Besides, nerf the torso twists and people will just load them with LRM, and more people will whine about getting LRowned.

Edited by Yokaiko, 02 March 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[shintakie]

Jestun, on 02 March 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

2A has 30 alpha with 6 medium lasers, 2B has 25 with 5 medium lasers, 3M has 20 with 4 medium lasers.

I've ignored ballistic as I don't play ballistic light / mediums so don't know which weapons I would load.

But considering the head armour maxes at 18, I'd dispute your claims unless you are purposely using a build with low damage.

:edit:

Of course, this is only discussing the position where the splatcat has the most advantage, I can see why you would want to only discuss that as it makes you seem more correct but lets also discuss what happens when you meet a splatcat as 600m range.

None of those mechs can one shot a Catapult, even if the alpha is directly on the cockpit. In the mean time, the Splatcat can absolutely one shot you.

Okay then, lets discuss what happens when you see a splatcat at 600m. Oh hey, splatcat went behind cover. Now you either ignore it and hope you don't accidentally run into it again, or attempt to always keep 600m away from it while doin **** all damage to it with your medium lasers.

Lets drop it to 300m though. Now those medium lasers are doin some damage and they're outrangin the srms. What do we get from that? Well, we have to at least keep a minimum of 200m out as any closer puts you close enough to be murdered by the srms due to that bein roughly the distance where they have the least spread. You dont want to go farther than 300m out because your lasers will degrade in damage pretty quickly.

Absolute best case scenario? You face an ***** A1 pilot that continues to chase you, but absolutely can't catch you, and you're able to whittle away at his health or disengage and find somethin less deadly to fight.

Worst case scenario? You face a A1 pilot that has even a little bit of skill and realizes what you're doin and usin one of the billion places to disengage and goes to find somethin else to kill. If you go back to engage, you're back within his effective range.

This discussion obviously ignores teamwork which is hard to ignore but hard to account for because a million things can change when teamworks introduced. Teammate comes to help you durin your dance of death, teammate helps the other guy. Your escape gets cut off by a fight goin on. Someone starts shootin LRM's at the Cat/you. Chances are if there's a "Use your team" solution, there's a counter "Well then they use their team" solution. Kinda like school children on the playground. "I use my cloaking device!" "Well I use my anti-cloaking device" "Well I use my anti-anti-cloaking device" "Then I get my dad to beat up your dad!"

[Jestun]

shintakie, on 02 March 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

None of those mechs can one shot a Catapult, even if the alpha is directly on the cockpit. In the mean time, the Splatcat can absolutely one shot you.

Okay then, lets discuss what happens when you see a splatcat at 600m. Oh hey, splatcat went behind cover. Now you either ignore it and hope you don't accidentally run into it again, or attempt to always keep 600m away from it while doin **** all damage to it with your medium lasers.

Lets drop it to 300m though. Now those medium lasers are doin some damage and they're outrangin the srms. What do we get from that? Well, we have to at least keep a minimum of 200m out as any closer puts you close enough to be murdered by the srms due to that bein roughly the distance where they have the least spread. You dont want to go farther than 300m out because your lasers will degrade in damage pretty quickly.

Absolute best case scenario? You face an ***** A1 pilot that continues to chase you, but absolutely can't catch you, and you're able to whittle away at his health or disengage and find somethin less deadly to fight.

Worst case scenario? You face a A1 pilot that has even a little bit of skill and realizes what you're doin and usin one of the billion places to disengage and goes to find somethin else to kill. If you go back to engage, you're back within his effective range.

This discussion obviously ignores teamwork which is hard to ignore but hard to account for because a million things can change when teamworks introduced. Teammate comes to help you durin your dance of death, teammate helps the other guy. Your escape gets cut off by a fight goin on. Someone starts shootin LRM's at the Cat/you. Chances are if there's a "Use your team" solution, there's a counter "Well then they use their team" solution. Kinda like school children on the playground. "I use my cloaking device!" "Well I use my anti-cloaking device" "Well I use my anti-anti-cloaking device" "Then I get my dad to beat up your dad!"

Ok... it's clear that you think splatcats are unbeatable.

Perhaps you should try one? Perhaps you will see things how they really are.

:edit:

And FYI, if you check back on my post I didn't claim you could 1 hit it, I said:

Jestun, on 02 March 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:

Do you honestly have a lower alpha than the armour on a cat's head?

So yes, it may take 2 whole clicks to kill him...

Edited by Jestun, 02 March 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[Trev Firestorm]

shintakie, on 02 March 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

-snip-

This discussion obviously ignores teamwork which is hard to ignore but hard to account for because a million things can change when teamworks introduced. Teammate comes to help you durin your dance of death, teammate helps the other guy. Your escape gets cut off by a fight goin on. Someone starts shootin LRM's at the Cat/you. Chances are if there's a "Use your team" solution, there's a counter "Well then they use their team" solution. Kinda like school children on the playground. "I use my cloaking device!" "Well I use my anti-cloaking device" "Well I use my anti-anti-cloaking device" "Then I get my dad to beat up your dad!"

To the snipped: So what? You are playing out of your role and into his if you are engaging a splat cat with that kind of loadout.

To the last: Congrats? You have successfully described what makes a team game fun.

[shintakie]

Jestun, on 02 March 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

Ok... it's clear that you think splatcats are unbeatable.

Perhaps you should try one? Perhaps you will see things how they really are.

I have tried a splatcat, back after they changed the spread of SRM's because they were completely ridic and able to pop people from 250m away with pinpoint accuracy. They were broken then and I felt bad for actually playin one. Atlas in my way? 2 Alphas later there isn't an Atlas in my way. If his back is turned, 1 alpha if I could aim right

Did I die a lot? Sure. I was terrible and didn't use or even have jump jets. I could also take out a minimum of 1 mech a match and cripple another without fail before they were able to ******* up. If I had a particularly good game I could kill 3-4 mechs.

Things like Splatcats and Streak 3L's are like zerg rushes way back in SC1 before they got adjusted. They're **** easy to pull off, require far more skill than the oppposin player to actively counter, and even if they don't work you almost always set up a later advantage

Quote

So yes, it may take 2 whole clicks to kill him...

It takes 1 click with no skill to kill me, it takes 2 clicks with a decent amount of skill to hold a beam on the head, you know. Assumin the A1 pilot just plods along towards me instead of movin his head even a little.

Edit - Lol. The forums dont censor blow, or me, but type the two together and it censors it.

Edited by shintakie, 02 March 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[Jestun]

shintakie, on 02 March 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

I could also take out a minimum of 1 mech a match and cripple another without fail before they were able to ******* up. If I had a particularly good game I could kill 3-4 mechs.

That's what I do in my stalker.

My raven too, but that *is* OP so lets ignore that.

[Suki]

Yokaiko, on 02 March 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:

I have a phact that goes 87 and a pair of awesomes that are 86kph. I don't really use Cats anymore, for anything much less an A1.

I've died to one exactly once in the last week and that was grinding up a -9M.


Besides, nerf the torso twists and people will just load them with LRM, and more people will whine about getting LRowned.

They are already whining.