56 replies to this topic

[Menthro Kerensky]

AlexEss, on 26 February 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

-snipped-

the -3L is brutally efficent in it's intended role as a E-War machine but seeing as most people strip most of the e-war equipment from it in order to fit more weapons it just becomes a very second line mech.

....What Raven 3ls are YOU running with?

[LogicSol]

Yea, I'm going to move some rear side torso armor to the front of my jenner after seeing those.

[FrozenAnt]

LogicSol, on 26 February 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

If TAG is difficult, use Lasers and leg.
Or bring a teammate with ECM.
You keep matching up lights vs lights. While it keeps things a little neater, that's not how the game works. There is a cicada that's ECM capable, it's only 5 tons heavier, as there are several other mechs that can carry ECM too.

For your base defense example.
So there are 2 3L's in your base.
What if you had, i dunno a Com 2D and a Cicada 3M answer that? It' going to be pretty even.

While you are busy legging the ravens, they are busy hitting your core with streaks...

If you bring a friend with ECM then it's 1 ECM vs their 2, which results in them still nullifying missile lock.

Most people consider a cicada a heavy Light, but,

If you had a Com 2D+cicada vs Raven+ Raven

Again the Cicada is reliant on ballistics and lasers, which takes more work to aim than the streaks. It has the same problems that jenners have, just with more armor and less maneuverability

The 2 ECM's Nullify each other and both sides are free to use streaks. However the comm 2D will die with 2-3 Salvos from the combined Streak ravens, leaving the Cicada to fight by itself.

The only winning possibility is if the Cicada pilot is very, very much more skilled than the 3L's and manages to solo both in that engagement (assuming the Com-2d dies with in 7 seconds ~2 streak salvos +laser damage from ravens)

Put that cicada pilot in a raven, and his skill will allow his lasers to hit more consistently, and he also get the boost from free damage from streaks

I have logged 2000 games with 98% of those in mediums and lights. I will admit I have not played cicada's but I have experienced nearly every possible combination on scout vs scout in 8 mans and pugs. I know it seems like I'm crying and whining, but this is what really happens.

[Rhent]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 26 February 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

calling BS!

if you know how to aim you can alpha a 3L with 100% armor and kill it straight out in one hit. People kill my 3L all the time. A good pilot will kill me in 2 or 3 hits moving at 150kps and zigzaging around buildings. Heck i die more than I survive. The 3L is not the problem. Its your aim. see it all the time. most people tend to just hold down their mouse buttons then aim. No wonder you cant hit ****!

People kill your Raven 3L all the time in One Alpha when you present your SIDE ARMOR PANELS to be hit. A Raven 3L can take multiple Alpha's from the front from SRM6 Cats and live. I've personally seen a Raven take 3 SRM6 barrages point blank to the nose as the Raven pilot is laughing it off. I only got the kill because I finally could get a side torso shot on the Raven.

[The Cheese]

Alistair Winter, on 26 February 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

I appreciate the fact that you want to be positive, but surely you can see the flaw in your argument. People aren't complaining about light mechs, they're complaining about a specific variant. Today, Raven 3L is the ultimate light mech. Stopping people from "hiding behind lag shields" (which is missing the point entirely, btw) doesn't suddenly make it more interesting to dust off a Jenner or a Spider.

It makes sense to fix the foundations before you start patching the cracks in the walls.

[Beo Vulf]

Serapth, on 26 February 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

It's worse than that.

The Raven is broken, bugged to hell, and should be pulled from the game until it's fixed. It can take many times the amount of laser fire that it should be able to.

Until that happens we can't even begin to discuss if it being one of the fastest mechs, with ECM and 2 missile hardpoints is a stupid balance decision ( note, it is ).

Agreed when it takes 3 shots with medium lasers to core a Jenner and an Atlas cant kill a Raven with 3 shots of an AC20 something is out of whack.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Rhent, on 26 February 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

I've personally seen a Raven take 3 SRM6 barrages point blank to the nose as the Raven pilot is laughing it off.

no you did not. If you did it was a LONG time ago. Just because you saw someone shoot 3 srm6 does not mean all the projectiles hit the target.

Vermaxx, on 26 February 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

There are also dev confirmed hit box problems.

Grizley, on 26 February 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...x-localisation/

Die in a fire. But go look at the hitboxes first.

Where did the devs confirm this? The fanboys are not devs.

you should read up on XL engines. Then you will learn the legs are not the 3L true weakness. Its essentially a walking head. Which if any part is destroyed the 3l dies. Maybe you should aim be4 you pull the trigger.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 26 February 2013 - 04:28 PM.

[Grizley]

Rhent, on 26 February 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

People kill your Raven 3L all the time in One Alpha when you present your SIDE ARMOR PANELS to be hit. A Raven 3L can take multiple Alpha's from the front from SRM6 Cats and live. I've personally seen a Raven take 3 SRM6 barrages point blank to the nose as the Raven pilot is laughing it off. I only got the kill because I finally could get a side torso shot on the Raven.

That is the effect of the hitboxes.

If you look at the hitbox thread, the Raven front profile view is very interesting. Essentially there is no reliable way to pick at one torso of a moving Raven from the front, the hit boxes are a very odd shape, have no visual cues and overlap at the nose in an extremely non-intuitive way.

So shooting from the front you expect to be hitting center, but really you're spreading damage all across the three torso locations. That's especially true for something that isn't pinpoint accurate to begin with like SRMs.

[LogicSol]

FrozenAnt, on 26 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

While you are busy legging the ravens, they are busy hitting your core with streaks...

If you bring a friend with ECM then it's 1 ECM vs their 2, which results in them still nullifying missile lock.

Most people consider a cicada a heavy Light, but,

If you had a Com 2D+cicada vs Raven+ Raven

Again the Cicada is reliant on ballistics and lasers, which takes more work to aim than the streaks. It has the same problems that jenners have, just with more armor and less maneuverability

The 2 ECM's Nullify each other and both sides are free to use streaks. However the comm 2D will die with 2-3 Salvos from the combined Streak ravens, leaving the Cicada to fight by itself.

The only winning possibility is if the Cicada pilot is very, very much more skilled than the 3L's and manages to solo both in that engagement (assuming the Com-2d dies with in 7 seconds ~2 streak salvos +laser damage from ravens)

Put that cicada pilot in a raven, and his skill will allow his lasers to hit more consistently, and he also get the boost from free damage from streaks

I have logged 2000 games with 98% of those in mediums and lights. I will admit I have not played cicada's but I have experienced nearly every possible combination on scout vs scout in 8 mans and pugs. I know it seems like I'm crying and whining, but this is what really happens.

maybe, just maybe, this has NOTHING to do with ECM, and everything to do with the raven'***** detection being wonky like the devs said.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

LogicSol, on 26 February 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

like the devs said.

They never said such a thing. Fanboys and founders are not devs.

[Broceratops]

hey, it worked for bill clinton

[Alistair Winter]

The Cheese, on 26 February 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

It makes sense to fix the foundations before you start patching the cracks in the walls.

I'm not arguing against that. I'm not saying they shouldn't work on netcode or collision. I'm just saying that those things won't change the fact that the Raven 3L is far superior to any other light mech. Maybe fixing netcode or collision will stop packs of Raven 3Ls from taking out heavier mechs as easily as they do today, but it won't bring more Spiders, Jenners or Commandos to the battlefield.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Serapth, on 26 February 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

There is something else wrong. A 3l can be standing still and shrug of an 80 point alpha... that aint lag shield.

I have not experienced this issue, I have absolutely mauled some overheated 3L's (PPC and medium lasers)
Not saying it didn't happen to you, just that I have never experienced that issue.

Vermaxx, on 26 February 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

The 3L is as combat effective as a Jenner, but it has ECM and therefore its streaks are almost never disabled.

Simply not true, Jenners have higher engine caps and more energy hardpoints that make them FAR more effective. Jenners were "OP and broken," (just look up how many threads are on that) until ECM came into the game and now the Commando 2D and Raven 3L are broken. Are Jenners still broken? Hard to say.
ECM and SSRM will get fixed eventually (Garth posted a while ago that they "are aware of and looking into the issue"), but I think Ravens and Jenners, ALL VARIANTS should have their max engine size reduced to 245 so that the Spider is actually useful for its intended purpose. Once netcode improves, then maybe revisit engine caps all the way around.

[Tennex]

Helmer, on 26 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

"Before we do anything to the 3Ls we are waiting for state rewind to come in. 3L's will be a lot less desirable when you can't hide behind lag shields."

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1943427

but guess what? flaw in your logic. 3Ls will still dominate all other light mechs.

you've just nerfed light mechs overall. you didn't nerf raven 3Ls relative to other light mechs.


maybe get to root of the issue? ECM and sSRMs.

Edited by Tennex, 26 February 2013 - 06:20 PM.

[Lonestar1771]

PGI will only fix something once they notice their wallets aren't as full because of the issue. Money, it's always about money.

[Natasha Kerensky]

They don't admit to anything and they don't answer any questions. In ask the Devs, all they do is say "it's in the plans", "we're thinking about it", etc, etc.

[AlexEss]

Tennex, on 26 February 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

but guess what? flaw in your logic. 3Ls will still dominate all other light mechs.

you've just nerfed light mechs overall. you didn't nerf raven 3Ls relative to other light mechs.


maybe get to root of the issue? ECM and sSRMs.

But the thing is with this back in order, medium builds designed to hunt lights will become more viable again and the lights can go back to what they do best, harass big slow mechs. And even two or three SSRM2 are rather weak compared to what you can pack in to most mediums. And they have the armor to soak the damage while they turn the light in to scrap. Add knockdown to that and you will see threads upon threads of "buff lights". Ofc once the streak 4's and 6's comes in to play there will be a issue. But we do not know when that will happen, so no need to pluck that bird now.

Edited by AlexEss, 27 February 2013 - 02:37 AM.