56 replies to this topic

[AlexEss]

Ok how many have ACTUALLY given a still standing Raven a full alpha and have it shrug it off.. If you have do a video of it and post it so we can see the issue.

The reason i ask is that since that "lag"-fix i can hot ravens no problem at all (well outside of my crappy aiming that is) but i have rarely had the pleasure of facing one standing perfectly still (unless the pilot have dissco.. and then the game is up in the air as it might be bugged in some way)

Anyway i am willing to trust state-rewind before i ask for anything to be done to it seeing as outside of the ECM the -3L is a fairly weak mech compared to the others (other ravens not included)

[FrozenAnt]

LogicSol, on 26 February 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

Since when can other lights not carry streaks? Yea yea spider don't have missile mounts. But both commandos and jenners do.
PS TAG, it works against ECM.
PPS, teammates also work against ECM, because this game isn't designed around 1v1.

You are correct Tag does work against ECM, But holding it steady in a scout skirmish again require more skill of the pilot using it. Which again put that same skilled in a 3L and they benefit from their skill AND the mech

Teammates do work well however. When you play 8 mans you will often find yourself engaged in the enemy teams lights with your wing man

Jenner+Jenner vs Raven Raven
Raven+Jenner vs Raven Raven
Com+Raven vs Raven Rave
Jenner+Jenner vs Raven Raven

In all possible combination the skill required to EVEN COMPETE with 2 3L's is drastically higher for all combinations of the left hand side.

In competitive 8 mans, there is no way in hell you are going to send that atlas back to defend your base. It is your 2 scout's job. If your scouts are not 3L's the skill required in order to win that fight is enormous in which put those skilled pilots in 3L's and they will be even better

[Bubba Wilkins]

I rarely see more than one 3L or D-DC in matches lately.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Vermaxx, on 26 February 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

I run with good players. I routinely hear them express surprise at the hit detection on a mech.

Only ever happens with ravens.


Can someone kill a raven? Yes. Does it take more work than equivalent mechs? Seems so, and it shouldn't.

LOL

its fast, its small. aim then shoot dont shoot then aim.

There are PLENTY of ways to bring down a 3L learn them. Im guessing you have no idea the back armor on a 3L. If you do your just buthurt something you dont run can give you a run for your money. Adapt and overcome then play smarter not harder.

2 many people talking about legging 3L's. LOL no wonder you cant kill it. The legs move. Look up the disadvantage to an XL engine. Then you will never want to aim for the legs again.

[Vermaxx]

The 3L is as combat effective as a Jenner, but it has ECM and therefore its streaks are almost never disabled. There are also dev confirmed hit box problems. So, it is a scout mech with electronic warfare equipment that outperforms the premier light combat mech.

Telling people how to lag shoot is well and good, telling people they need to lag shoot with lasers is bullshart.

[Vermaxx]

I'm not ******** about anything, this entire thread is people expressing the opinion that they need work. YOU are here admitting you use one regularly and denying there is a problem.

I used to do the same thing with gauss, and since the hit point reduction I don't use them anymore. You are not being objective. I can afford a raven easily, and frankly I am not ********, I'll just buy one and be on the op train too.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Vermaxx, on 26 February 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

There are also dev confirmed hit box problems.

link or st*u!

[Vermaxx]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 26 February 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

link or st*u!

You're right. I made it all up, doesn't exist, I'm only out to screw you and your mech choice. Your argument has defeated me with unerringly clear facts.

Wait, no, you're relying on equally flimsy personal opinion and anecdotal evidence like everyone else. Except you use one, like one, and would be personally harmed by any changes. Exactly like I was with gauss.

Well, I was wrong and I'm going to assume you are too. Now I just use an x-wing build.

[Jacmac]

You guys are complaining about the Raven 3Ls so much that it makes me want to run it just for lulz. Don't get me wrong, I like Ravens just fine, but I don't think they are OP any more than the SRM Cat, PPC Stalker, 3x UAC5 Muromets, Trollmando, AC20 Cat, Streakapult, Gaussapult, etc. Any build that gets popular for any reason is a build that will generate complaints. Maybe PGI should take away the Mechbay and force everyone to play fixed builds?

[Grizley]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 26 February 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

link or st*u!

You can find the hitbox thread yourself. The Raven has a VERY funky torso hitbox. The side torsos go clear to the tip of the nose, but with a thin shape, it's hard to explain.

So what you say, well we're talking about a mech that can't really be taken down by streaks. So what is the second go to weapon for killing small fast mechs? Lasers. Oops, lasers even fired by an extremely skilled gunner get split across all 3 torso locations of the Raven essentially at random. So what you say again? Well an Atlas carries something like 100 points of armor on it's center torso. The Raven sports 30 armor on it's center torso and 22 on each side. That adds up to 72 armor. Considering the Atlas is the size of a barn and about as fast it's massively unbalanced that the Raven sports nearly 3/4 the effective armor.

Correcting the hitboxes on the Raven would probable prevent the need for taking more serious numbers nerfs.

Oh, and take a look at the Jenner hitboxes while you're looking at the Raven. The thing is essentially a giant center torso. Something like that would make the Raven more easily taken down by pretty much the only anti-light weapon that it doesn't counter due to ECM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Grizley, on 26 February 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

You can find the hitbox thread yourself.

I cant find something that does not exist.

[Aristotelis]

I have no problem to destory any raven with my jenner...

[Serapth]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 26 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

I cant find something that does not exist.

If I find it and quote it, will you go away?

[LogicSol]

FrozenAnt, on 26 February 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

You are correct Tag does work against ECM, But holding it steady in a scout skirmish again require more skill of the pilot using it. Which again put that same skilled in a 3L and they benefit from their skill AND the mech

Teammates do work well however. When you play 8 mans you will often find yourself engaged in the enemy teams lights with your wing man

Jenner+Jenner vs Raven Raven
Raven+Jenner vs Raven Raven
Com+Raven vs Raven Rave
Jenner+Jenner vs Raven Raven

In all possible combination the skill required to EVEN COMPETE with 2 3L's is drastically higher for all combinations of the left hand side.

In competitive 8 mans, there is no way in hell you are going to send that atlas back to defend your base. It is your 2 scout's job. If your scouts are not 3L's the skill required in order to win that fight is enormous in which put those skilled pilots in 3L's and they will be even better

If TAG is difficult, use Lasers and leg.
Or bring a teammate with ECM.
You keep matching up lights vs lights. While it keeps things a little neater, that's not how the game works. There is a cicada that's ECM capable, it's only 5 tons heavier, as there are several other mechs that can carry ECM too.

For your base defense example.
So there are 2 3L's in your base.
What if you had, i dunno a Com 2D and a Cicada 3M answer that? It' going to be pretty even.

[Grizley]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 26 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

I cant find something that does not exist.

http://mwomercs.com/...x-localisation/

Die in a fire. But go look at the hitboxes first.

[Kobold]

The Raven is just a combination of symptoms (net code, streak superiority, ECM being a bad bandaid to "fix" streaks), not a problem in and of itself.

[Vermaxx]

Jesus Christ the stalker has huge side torsos. No wonder they get their load outs burned so fast. Also head boxes seem universally too small, except for the GORRAM HUNCHBACKS AND CATAPULTS, WHICH IS ALLI USE.

[AlexEss]

Vermaxx, on 26 February 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

The 3L is as combat effective as a Jenner,

Actually it is not... It has worse placmetn of hardpoints and can mount one less laser, adding to that one of the three it can mount is torso mounted giving it less range of movement. It also lacks jumpjets and one if the missile points is a single fire one.

In truth the ECM is the only thing that saves it against Jenners.

If there is a hit box problem big enough to be a issue i'l give you that. But that will be fixed and then the poor thing is even weaker. the -3L is brutally efficent in it's intended role as a E-War machine but seeing as most people strip most of the e-war equipment from it in order to fit more weapons it just becomes a very second line mech.

Edited by AlexEss, 26 February 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Chou Senwan, on 26 February 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Basically, half the community thinks Raven-3Ls get played too much because they're more powerful than any other light mech. I wonder if PGI is worried about admitting that things are screwed up. But we'd like to see how many Raven-3Ls got played over the weekend compared to other mechs, and how good their K/D ratios are.

And if the stats don't bear out our assumptions, well, I'll grudgingly admit that I was wrong, and announce that I'll never complain about 3Ls anymore.

Who gives a crap. You do realize there is no such thing as perfect balance, right? There will always, I repeat ALWAYS, be one mech in any class that is largely considered the "best," especially by people that can't figure out how to beat it. That mech will be way over-played, largely by the same group of people. Before the Raven it was the Jenner. After the Raven it will be something else. The ONLY way to create perfect balance is to put everyone in the same mech with no options.

Christ, you'd think people would have at least a little self-respect and be slightly embarrassed to whine so much so publicly.

[Grizley]

Yeah, seeing what the hitboxes really are is pretty eye opening in some cases. It explains a lot of the disconnect between what a mech looks like on paper and how it feels when someone is shooting you.

You can use that to move armor around though, like it's fairly pointless to put much armor on a Trenchbuckets head, it's tiny and when they miss they hit CT. Even a really really good shot will likely kill your CT long before your head is in danger. You can pretty much not bother arming a Commando RT/LT rear, they're tiny and you have a massive CT rear hitbox, just put any back armor there.