60 replies to this topic

[Vulix]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 27 February 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

Many of the things you list are getting touched up next month!

However, they can't fix dodo birds: The diff between Assualt and Conquest..? Do they even look at the screen while they play?

(no wonder)

It's more so that the client let's players choose between game modes with no explanation before jumping into a match. Even Hawken as a pre-choice explanation for new players.

[EvangelionUnit]

blazarian, on 26 February 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

There's truth behind what you are saying, but this caught my eyes the most. There really aren't any motivation to do teamwork when you look at the gameplay at newcomers perspective. The only "teamwork" there is to stay as a big group and most likely to focus fire to certain enemy mech. The problem is that there kinda isn't anything to do teamwork for, at least visually or as a feeling (no threat or constant danger, you feel you can survive all the time).

I could think of some point defences or similar mechanics to be added to make the teamwork priority one. There could be some DM modes of course in the future that could be just for solo, but the current Conquest mode should really be revamped and new gamemode (with more tactical and team play requirements) especially for the new (Alpine) and upcoming 12v12 maps.

ingame rewards as in battlefield or americas army or call of duty (dunno if they still have this stuff?!) so extra credits and exp for certain tasks (be the entry round 100m or closter to a team mate, get "there is no 'i' in team")

hit all enemy mechs once (get "come get some!")

stuff like this that adds a small bonus but can be piled up to a big fat juicy bonus when you mange to do a few per round

oh and its funny how many people say most new players have problems with indipendent walking and shooting directions, why the hell can they do it games like WoT or some stupid shooter when they're on a gunner position in a vehicle ???

Edited by EvangelionUnit, 27 February 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[willrnlds]

Seems to be a lot of complaints about polish when core gameplay elements and controls aren't even in-game (like analog turning or collisions, for example).

Once the game starts to approach playable/releasable condition, then we can probably expect to see more polishing.

[Child3k]

The issues mentioned in the opening post are all known widely in the community - maybe it lacks priority on the developer side.
The thing is: People who want to try this f2p-game will not bring the will nor the patience to the table, that is necessary to learn how MWO works. At least not until PGI finally manages to bring us:

- A real tutorial. Doesn't have to be fancy - just something that explains and lets us try how the controls work. Put some paper-enemies into that thing and we're golden.

- Practice mode. A mode which lets a grp of 4 or 8 drop into a small practice map - combine that with a testdrive-mode, to test mechs and loadouts before we buy them. Golden again

Plus - I don't know. PGI can absolutely make a game that is fun - I really enjoy the action itself. But ... well ... they suck at creating a comprehensive UI. That thing needs some real improvement - man - even I could do a better job at that. Is is a little nuts.

And the beta-argument is BS. When this game launched into open beta that kinda was a release - at least a point where a lot new players joined. And the first hour in the game is crucial - that decides if the player stays or leaves forever.

willrnlds, on 27 February 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Seems to be a lot of complaints about polish when core gameplay elements and controls aren't even in-game (like analog turning or collisions, for example).

Once the game starts to approach playable/releasable condition, then we can probably expect to see more polishing.

All good and true - but like I said. If you want to be successfull you need to keep the players that join the game. I think MWO already lost a lot of potential in the initial weeks after open beta launch.

Edited by Child3k, 27 February 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[NitroDev]

If you want people to stick around for more than the first hour or 25 matches and not give up so easily, start charging for the game. Put a $15 price tag on starting, but give them $15 worth of MC. No initial investment makes it easy to walk away.

IMO, the people that give up after not being instantly good at a game are not the people I'd want to play with anyhow.

[ciller]

I managed to convince my boss to get this game, he immediately bought the legendary founders package, being an old school nerd of battletech.

He has tried to play maybe 10 or so matches since - he is just too casual of a gamer to learn this game in a competitive environment where he dies before he knows what is going on. He said he really wants to play the game still, the complexity isn't the problem, it is the lack of a place to learn it in a relaxed and safe environment that turns him away.

I am extremely glad they are adding the test-room mode. It is long overdue and will bring with it a large number of new/old players that haven't been able to get into it yet.

[MustrumRidcully]

Tarman, on 27 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

It's true that a lot of the FPSers from Console-land seem to have issues getting into this game. Sometimes it does feel like a cultural/systemic issue around today's crop of gamers. But the way to fix that is not to tell them to man up, but to give them a better path in. It's the paradigm of the market right now that many gamers are used to well-built tutes and info. And I'd rather a bunch of consolers got a tutorial that weans them off their easy-play games than merely to leave the game unaccessible to them and hope that hair grows on their bag. You can't tell people to eat their veggies no matter how good they are for them, but you can make a nice cheese sauce to get them to at least try it.

Gaming is much bigger now than it was "in the old days" when we would get a game without any handboos on a floppy disk from a friend. A lot more people are playing now then ever before, and this is making the game companies a lot of money. But if you want a lot of people, you have to accept that you need to deliver not just for the hard core crowd that grew up trying to figure out even the most byzantine games.

[ciller]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 March 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Gaming is much bigger now than it was "in the old days" when we would get a game without any handboos on a floppy disk from a friend. A lot more people are playing now then ever before, and this is making the game companies a lot of money. But if you want a lot of people, you have to accept that you need to deliver not just for the hard core crowd that grew up trying to figure out even the most byzantine games.

Why can't there be a market for such byzantine games still though? Just because the market has expanded? It seems like the gaming envelope is narrowing, not expanding with more and more people getting into gaming. I do not like the trend towards lowest common denominator, there should be room for games like MW:O and to have them not cater to every joe-blow that plays ProBass.

Edited by ciller, 01 March 2013 - 06:43 AM.

[ho1mes]

I got into this game first day of open beta. I had a much lower end system at the time and man it was rough those first few weeks. The tutorial info out there was truly sparse. Figuring out mechlab and the game mechanics, etc took some time. But I love the old mechwarrior games and kept at it, rofl stomps and all. I upgraded my system to play this game. Once I could hit what I was shooting at, my game experience was significantly better. But with experience I learned to actually play the game to a higher level. That takes time. Now I love this game even more. So for a noob coming into the game now it should be a significantly better experience in MWO than when I started. I do see, however, there is much room for improvement.

[Tarman]

ciller, on 01 March 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Why can't there be a market for such byzantine games still though? Just because the market has expanded? It seems like the gaming envelope is narrowing, not expanding with more and more people getting into gaming. I do not like the trend towards lowest common denominator, there should be room for games like MW:O and to have them not cater to every joe-blow that plays ProBass.

As much as I would like to live in that world, that's one of the reasons this is a F2P MO-style game and not the SP-based game the guys wanted to originally make. For all the grief people give the devs for the stuff they changed, at heart they ARE us, gamers. But nobody was going to give them money for that project. The moneyguys aren't interested in funding niche games, they're looking for the most amount of profit the easiest way possible; it's doubtful many of the moneyguys care what kind of game emerges as long as they make money, regardless of what PGI themselves want to develop.

[Ngamok]

Both of my friends that i introduced to this game had no trouble at all picking up the game and playing it and I answered all their questions onw eapons and choices. Your friends eitehr don't want to listen to you or they don't want to try. Or get friends like mine. My third friend plays too much GW2 and played this game for 2 days and probably did better than yours.

[MustrumRidcully]

ciller, on 01 March 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Why can't there be a market for such byzantine games still though? Just because the market has expanded? It seems like the gaming envelope is narrowing, not expanding with more and more people getting into gaming. I do not like the trend towards lowest common denominator, there should be room for games like MW:O and to have them not cater to every joe-blow that plays ProBass.

Depends, do you want go back to graphics from the 90s? Because that's what you could afford with a byzantine-game-player audience back then. Okay, maybe you can get a bit more now. but not that much more.

I doubt that tutorials and tips are costly to make. What's costly to make is the kick *** graphics and AI and what-not modern games need. The tutorials and stuff are just necessary to have enough people play this game to be satisfied so they buy the next one, too.

[Tabrias07]

It just occurred to me that the weapon stats are all shown in the mechlab now, but people can't access the mechlab until after they purchase a mech.

[Training Instructor]

Honestly, for people who aren't battletech fans, it's a total s**t game for beginners. Trying to take some kind of honor badge saying it should be hard for people who haven't been playing this game for years is f**king stupid.


They're trying to get new subscribers, and they've already ignored technology limits with the Raven 3L, so why not promote the game to millions of people who will walk into hapless games where they get slaughtered by Raven 3Ls, Catapult A1s, Atlas DDCs, and Cataphract 3ds.

Training Instructor, on 01 March 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Honestly, for people who aren't battletech fans, it's a total s**t game for beginners. Trying to take some kind of honor badge saying it should be hard for people who haven't been playing this game for years is f**king stupid.


They're trying to get new subscribers, and they've already ignored technology limits with the Raven 3L, so why not promote the game to millions of people who will walk into hapless games where they get slaughtered by Raven 3Ls, Catapult A1s, Atlas DDCs, and Cataphract 3ds.

They implemented MatchMaking so that new players could play trash builds against veterans playing smurf accounts.

[Fajther]

[color=#959595]- No explanation of weapon groupings or how to change\set them. I had to explain it otherwise he would have not gotten it for a while.[/color]

[color=#959595]- No idea of differences between different weapons, or the min\max weapon ranges and damage output. Perhaps an in-game weapon's table can help with this?[/color]

[color=#959595]There are training videos in the "training grounds" that he would have clicked on if you hadn't pulled him away to something else. These two things are covered in those videos.[/color]

[Hellen Wheels]

Ari Dian, on 26 February 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

there are several training videos.
These explain the basics really well. I would prefer an ingame training ground as well. But the videos are ok as alternative.

The training videos aren't enough. There should be a training map, with an in-game training instructor, which a new log-in is forced to endure (to a certain extent) but can accelerate through, into a Solaris Training Arena ("Live-Fire Training"), and then into the Lone Wolf's Arena, and then into the "Trial Arena" to join a Faction, and so on, it could even be driven by community volunteers--I would like to see that sort of in-game immersion of training and you'd have a winner.

Just my 2 C-Bills.
=H=

[buttmonkey]

couldnt agree more, a tutorial would be awsome but pgi will not make any pve so im guessing they wont make a propper tutorial system either.

its a shame because if new players could spend some time on a training map against some pretty weak AI i think it would make the world of difference.

[Ngamok]

This topic was about getting IRL friends to play. Since the game lacks very through tutorials, it's your job to explain it to your friends. I took the time to explain everything to two of my friends. They are now play regularly and get better. Until they add a training manual or tutorial, you be it.

[Kurshuk]

Thanks for the post, good observations. I brought 5 people to MWO, none are left. That group was the group I played SWTOR, PS2, the one with the clans and the stuff with world in the title. So we'd played before as well. They got the controls pretty quick, we're talking about serious PC gamers here. They were accurate and could do well in the battles. But they all joined before the cadet bonus and left before it became effective. Their chief complaint was that when we weren't playing premades there was no voice comms. Given that it's present in most team based games, but absent here.

They knew about TS and other VOIP solutions, but they felt that without chat for every game, even those pugged, that this game wasn't worth their time. I've tried to convince them to come back now that things are a little better, but since that first experience left such a bitter taste and voice comms are still of the unofficial or 3rd party persuasion none of them have come back.

Kurshuk

[Belorion]

EvangelionUnit, on 27 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

ingame rewards as in battlefield or americas army or call of duty (dunno if they still have this stuff?!) so extra credits and exp for certain tasks (be the entry round 100m or closter to a team mate, get "there is no 'i' in team")

hit all enemy mechs once (get "come get some!")

stuff like this that adds a small bonus but can be piled up to a big fat juicy bonus when you mange to do a few per round

oh and its funny how many people say most new players have problems with indipendent walking and shooting directions, why the hell can they do it games like WoT or some stupid shooter when they're on a gunner position in a vehicle ???

I actually think all games should have independant movement and aim. Only being able to aim where you are walking is silly.