140 replies to this topic

[MaddMaxx]

Glythe, on 27 February 2013 - 04:42 AM, said:

The fact that the PPC has a low number of critical slots is why I suggest the health nerf and the zero damage within 90m change.

If you don't feel the new PPC is every bit as powerful as the old Gauss rifle you are deluding yourself. We all know how that one turned out.... Gauss rifle is now only featured on sniper builds and is about 10 times more rare than the AC/20 on the battlefield (used to be the other way around).

er/PPC = damage="10" , Heat"="11" / "8"
Gauss Rifle = damage="15", Heat="1"

So, no they are not every bit as powerful.

[Kylere]

Roland, on 27 February 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Uh, the PPC does in fact have a minimum range of 90, already implemented in the game.

I disagree empirically. In my Commando, standing right on a Stalker last night who had lost all but 4 PPC's he was able to kill me at zero range.

[Thirdstar]

Josef Nader, on 27 February 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

I SEE UR HUMIES AND RAIZE YEW A WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

*Hive Fleet Behemoth approaches*

[EchoMike]

I must agree with the majority of the repondants to this thread. Not because I'm a conformist, because PPCs have received a number of buffs, and I think they are extremely effective now. Since the projectile speed buff and heat reduction, I regulary use the PPC with large amount of success!

Thanks PGI for the new improved PPCs!

[Ecouto]

Dude, really PPCs are suppose to travel at ballistic speed ? I dont think so They are energy weapons too, so technically speed of light!

[FerretGR]

I'm thinking this is a good way for PGI to determine that a weapon is starting to become balanced: the point where the calls for a nerf start.

You're being ridiculous, OP. PPCs were always one of the most feared weapons in lore, and they should be here.

[xRatas]

Kylere, on 27 February 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

I disagree empirically. In my Commando, standing right on a Stalker last night who had lost all but 4 PPC's he was able to kill me at zero range.

The damage is reduced, supposedly, in linear fashion. 10 points at 90m, 1 point at 9m. So it does damage, but generally not worth the heat at close ranges.

[Thirdstar]

Kylere, on 27 February 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

I disagree empirically. In my Commando, standing right on a Stalker last night who had lost all but 4 PPC's he was able to kill me at zero range.

Damage drops linearly under 80m, you were in commando and those don't exactly take much to blow up.

[FerretGR]

Ecouto, on 27 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Dude, really PPCs are suppose to travel at ballistic speed ? I dont think so They are energy weapons too, so technically speed of light!

They fire particles, and there are no particles that travel at the speed of light.

[KKillian]

Kylere, on 27 February 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

I disagree empirically. In my Commando, standing right on a Stalker last night who had lost all but 4 PPC's he was able to kill me at zero range.

Yes, ppc does damage inside of 90, no it does not do 10 dmg per.

[Lightfoot]

No. I think PPC and ERPPC are fine. You can't boat them due to Heat, players that do are no more effective with them due to heat and weight, unlike Gauss Rifles and AC20s which feature unlimited firing when boated.

One of the most valid weaknesses of any mech is when it shutsdown all the time it is an easy kill for a mobile and balanced mech. So 2 ERPPC are moderate to overheat, 3 ERPPC overheat very fast, 4 shutdown the mech. PPCs are cooler, but have a minimum range, so PPC boats are easily beaten.

All in all I would say PPCs and ERPPCs are perfectly balanced now. Very close to Battletech descriptions too.

[Sir Trent Howell]

Glythe, on 27 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Ok so let's examine the situation here. Gauss rifle was borderline OP and got health nerf. Now everyone is one again using AC/20 instead because the GR sucks unless you are sniping long range.

PPCs are easy mode right now as they hit one location (lasers fail at this), travel at a super increased velocity compared to ballistics (mind you it is supposed to travel slowly like a ballistic weapon)

I don't see a reduction in Gaussrifle use. There's a reduction in Gausscat use because, but not because the GR got any sort of nerf.

Light travels slowly? This is news to me....

[Damon Howe]

One suggestion I heard was tuning the PPC's to do damage to your mech if fired within 90m. In the rulebook, PPC's were unable to fire within 90m, due to an inhibitor. You COULD turn that inhibitor off, but if you fired you were likely to cause damage to your own mech in some way shape or form.

I think this could be replicated and would offset the lessened heat bonus the PPC has over the ER, making both having pro's and con's (course, the PPC already is practically useless at 90m, but still).

It could be something minor, such as your mini-map blurring like in ECM for a few seconds or possibly slight internal structure damage or a possible crit chance if multiples are fired. Any of these would make the PPC more adherent to battletech and certainly change the idea of an all-PPC build.

...and before you say it, yes someone could just switch to ER's, or ignore the damage altogether. Or that it's unnecessary; but it would be more like battletech board games in some regard.

[Hou]

FerretGR, on 27 February 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

They fire particles, and there are no particles that travel at the speed of light.

Correct, though it's better to not be involved in "lore-hagglin" in the first place really. The entire game operates on magical science. You balance the mechanics vaguely in keeping with the spirit of the game and write the lore/science/fairytale mumbo jumbo to fit it. Doing it the other way around is more than a shade dippy.

Yes, that does mean if your comeback to a balancing issue is "It's an energy weapon it travels at the speed of light!(Doesn't really matter if you're arguing this for a laser even)" then really what you are typing is more along the lines of "Herp! Nothing in this universe actually makes sense anyhow, but I'm going to apply !science! to this one case when it's convenient for me to do so. Derp!"

Edited by Hou, 27 February 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Kylere, on 27 February 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

I disagree empirically. In my Commando, standing right on a Stalker last night who had lost all but 4 PPC's he was able to kill me at zero range.

You are mistaken. Within 90 meters the damage from PPCs drops off incrementally to zero. So at 45 meters they do 5 damage, at 20 meters they do 2.1 damage at 5 meters they do 1.05 damage. Your mistake was to run straight at the PPC mech and think you wouldn't get broadsided.

In MWO that's a very heavy nerf/weakness for an aimed, direct fire weapon. The Gauss has a minimum range in Battletech, 120 meters I believe, but it was not nerfed in MWO.

Edited by Lightfoot, 27 February 2013 - 09:47 AM.

[Lightfoot]

FerretGR, on 27 February 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

They fire particles, and there are no particles that travel at the speed of light.

That's actually not true, however, in the PPC's case they travel at nearly the speed of light in the lore.

[Lootee]

Glythe, on 27 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Ok so let's examine the situation here. Gauss rifle was borderline OP and got health nerf. Now everyone is one again using AC/20 instead because the GR sucks unless you are sniping long range.

There was nothing borderline about it. It was broken and PGI confirmed it as such. The code was dysfunctional and gauss rifles never exploded when they should have. Couple that with non-explosive ammunition, high damage, long range, no minimum range, and no heat it was game balance broken as well. There was no risk involved at all taking it, and no other weapon even came close.

It needed fixing and it feels about right now. It's still the best weapon in the game but now you have to consider its drawbacks. Before the fix it didn't really have any. You just stuck it on any mech that could clear out 15 tons.

PPCs still produce large amounts of heat and some have minimum range and all have convergence issues. So no they aren't even close to what the broken version of the gauss rifle was.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 27 February 2013 - 10:02 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Ecouto, on 27 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Dude, really PPCs are suppose to travel at ballistic speed ? I dont think so They are energy weapons too, so technically speed of light!

Well, not exactly. They're particle projection cannons. Have you ever paid attention to how much energy CERN or Fermilab use to accelerate their protons?

[FerretGR]

Hou, on 27 February 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

You balance the mechanics vaguely in keeping with the spirit of the game and write the lore/science/fairytale mumbo jumbo to fit it. Doing it the other way around is more than a shade dippy.

Well, as a physics guy, if there's one thing I insist that they work the mechanics around, it's the speed of light as being something that only applies to lasers. There's a big difference between "hmm, these giant bipedal robots probably wouldn't work IRL" and anything other than light moving at the speed of light, imho, when it comes to suspension of disbelief. Jump tech obviously being exempt.

And to be fair, the "dippy" situation you refer to is basically the case. At worst, tabletop and lore developed at the same time, and the videogames all came well after the fact. As much as I support PGI when it comes to tweaking the source, they don't have the option of reinventing or rebooting IMHO.

Lightfoot, on 27 February 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

That's actually not true, however, in the PPC's case they travel at nearly the speed of light in the lore.

What particle (photon doesn't count) can travel AT the speed of light? NEARLY the speed of light isn't the same thing.

Edited by FerretGR, 27 February 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[lsp]

erppc's have their min range removed for a reason. And like I have posted in many many of these threads before, all you cry baby whiner's who want everything balanced in a 1:1 need to just ******* stop. You're ruining this game, and also the GR does not suck, you just have to know how to use it. Same as before, so if you think gr sucks then you suck. Torso twist is your friend.

Edited by lsp, 27 February 2013 - 10:00 AM.