25 replies to this topic

[Aeolus Drift]

I think its safe to say for the most part that we have all had a lot of fun trying out all kinds of wacky builds for mechs, ac20 cats, ninja lights (we know your names), flak-cats, dakkaphracts, grand dragon knock-offs, slasbacks, thunder-god stalkers, etc., etc.. However to be honest none of these builds seemed all to inspiring for me. I admit the novelty factor behind some of them were certainly charming, (there was a time I was curious about trying an AC-20 raven myself), but I rarely caught on to them long enough to give them a try. Instead I was curious about what made the original variants tick. When I bought my AL i was initially just trying to reach mastery for my centurions. Overtime though, I realized this mech had so much potential not yet taken advantage of. And since so many people have turned min-maxing of mechs into a proverbial dead-horse that is being perpetually harvested for gelatin, I decided to make myself around the mech instead of building the mech around myself or the numbers. the resulting mech has produced, what I believe to be the ultimate multi-purpose mech, of near infinite endurance and fortitude.

Loadout

1x ER Large Laser
2x Medium Pulse Laser
1x LRM-10(no artemis)
2xLRM ammo (in case)
1x Medium laser (replaces the small)

Endo-Steel Structure
16x-DHS (none are put in left arm)
-2 points of armor in the head
STD 200. (64.8 kph)

tips

now having about ~65 kph top speed certainly may not seem ideal for a medium, who are generally relegated to either skirmishers, light-killers or flankers. However I don't often attempt to run my centurion in these roles. Instead I have found it to be effective in its intended role, an escort 'mech. while the centurion is certainly a capable brawler and frontline mech, it is intended to be a defender for allied fire-support 'mechs (such as its sister 'mech, the Trebuchet), And while it certainly doesn't have the speed to chase off lights, it certainly has adequate firepower and maneuverability to make lights think about going THOMAAAS HOOOOGARTH after your team's friendly neighborhood Atlas.
One of the things I have come to love about this 'mech is that the weapons loadout gives it effective damage at all ranges. the lrm's and large laser can harass opponents at longer ranges, and even when opponents manage to close in 250 meters, the medium laser and the medium pulse can provide ample damage, at close range, and the er large laser can still be used to provide extra firepower at close range. now the real kicker is that even without double basic skills, you can have a relatively heat efficient 'mech if you have decent firing discipline, and this is true even on caustic valley (though you might wish to double your caution). and just remember that the standard centurion tactics also still apply, use your left arm to shield most of the damage you take, use cover to your advantage. try and take shot from cover when possible.

Edit: here's a link to the build for you to see what it looks like:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2459d043eaa193c
P.S. if you wish to try out this build or have had experiences with similar builds please feel free to share your thoughts here.

Edited by Interceptor12, 28 February 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[NRP]

To me, the AL just screams for two PPCs on the right arm. The energy version of the YLW.

[Phaesphoros]

My 2 cents xD

I don't like all-range mechs. Simple reason: I attach great importance to the position / placement of my mech in the battlefield. If I pilot a light, I'll flank the hostile lines to get their position and locks for LRMs. Direct-fire long range mechs take sniper positions or back up brawlers and so on. With all-range mechs (not necessarily multi-purpose mechs) there's just not THE position or range you want to fight an enemy. And with only 65 kph, all you can do is support a specialised SLOW mech (CTPLTs go up to 80, AWS iirc up to 70).

What you can do is to fight any mech in a distance in which it is uncomfortable (brawlers at long range and so on), but dealing only some dmg. This mech then will either retreat or engage, and you will most certainly be too slow to react.

But being a lone wolf only, I don't have the perspective of 8-mans or well-organized 4-man premades. From what I've learned from vids and forum posts, it seems to me that mechs which are too specialized (-> single-purpose) don't perform well AGAINST well-organized teams (such as 6-PPC-STK or splat-cat, boom-cat, ...). Maybe you're build is vital there, I don't know.

I've mastered my AL with dual PPC, even before the heat reduction. It's also a support build, since CN9s are quite fragile. You stay with the team or next to the team and supoort and 400-500 m. For close range, can use streaks/SRMs and MLs. For me, the most effective tactics for non-phalanx(*) non-lights is hit-and-run, or pop-and-fire. Additionally, your shield arm calls for shoot-and-twist/turn (like AWS), which can be done best with PPCs.

One last word: I'm a fan of using each mechs special abilities, and for cents, this is the shield arm and high arm-mounted firepower (as compared to hunches).

(*)non-phalanx: no AS7, no STK, no CTF-4X, no mech which is slow and cannot turn, no mech which is like a phalanx

[Tremendous Upside]

I love the idea of running double PPCs on mechs with dual arm hardpoints. I always run 1 PPC on my AL - but truthfully, the AL is just a little too light to carry 2 comfortably (well at max speed anyways). It seems to work a lot better with the extra 10 tons I have to work with on Flame... One PPC is still great on the AL. I run it with 2MLs (yes I know u can fit one more on) and 2SRM6s with 15 DHS and an XL275. In one game just last night, I must've peppered a poor atlas 8-9 times in a row from the saddle on frozen city. By the time he turned to look at what was poking him, I'd already bolted and set back up elsewhere.. Must've driven the guy crazy . The reason I run with only 2 MLs is just for the heat. Three get so hot you'll need to slow down after a couple volleys. With 2, you can fire non stop... It makes a big difference and makes the mech feel much more effective.

[roastpuff]

Banky, on 27 February 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

The reason I run with only 2 MLs is just for the heat. Three get so hot you'll need to slow down after a couple volleys. With 2, you can fire non stop... It makes a big difference and makes the mech feel much more effective.

The other way to do it is to set 2 lasers to a certain weapon group and have another weapon group fire all 3 ML's. I do that - I have the center torso ML's set to one group and the arm ML to another group so I can fire both groups or just one group at a time.

[Aeolus Drift]

Phaesphoros, on 27 February 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

My 2 cents xD

I don't like all-range mechs. Simple reason: I attach great importance to the position / placement of my mech in the battlefield. If I pilot a light, I'll flank the hostile lines to get their position and locks for LRMs. Direct-fire long range mechs take sniper positions or back up brawlers and so on. With all-range mechs (not necessarily multi-purpose mechs) there's just not THE position or range you want to fight an enemy. And with only 65 kph, all you can do is support a specialised SLOW mech (CTPLTs go up to 80, AWS iirc up to 70).

What you can do is to fight any mech in a distance in which it is uncomfortable (brawlers at long range and so on), but dealing only some dmg. This mech then will either retreat or engage, and you will most certainly be too slow to react.

But being a lone wolf only, I don't have the perspective of 8-mans or well-organized 4-man premades. From what I've learned from vids and forum posts, it seems to me that mechs which are too specialized (-> single-purpose) don't perform well AGAINST well-organized teams (such as 6-PPC-STK or splat-cat, boom-cat, ...). Maybe you're build is vital there, I don't know.

I've mastered my AL with dual PPC, even before the heat reduction. It's also a support build, since CN9s are quite fragile. You stay with the team or next to the team and supoort and 400-500 m. For close range, can use streaks/SRMs and MLs. For me, the most effective tactics for non-phalanx(*) non-lights is hit-and-run, or pop-and-fire. Additionally, your shield arm calls for shoot-and-twist/turn (like AWS), which can be done best with PPCs.

One last word: I'm a fan of using each mechs special abilities, and for cents, this is the shield arm and high arm-mounted firepower (as compared to hunches).

(*)non-phalanx: no AS7, no STK, no CTF-4X, no mech which is slow and cannot turn, no mech which is like a phalanx

I will admit I have given it thought to optimize for more close range engagement, but to be honest I'm comfortable with my opponent choosing the distance.The reason I'm comfortable about this is because I know my arsenal can return fire to him at almost any distance he could choose. in essence, my weapon choices are not so much to control the course of the battle, but to adapt to what may come. While I do admit it is likely more optimized for organized play, I have found it is surprisingly effective in solo games. I have a racked considerable number of assists from this mech, and taken down quite a few assaults who underestimated the firepower my mech and forgot to pay attention to their armor levels. So long as you stick with your friends and utilize every bit of your mech, its surprisingly effective.

in the words of Bruce Lee, "Be water my friend".

[Tremendous Upside]

roastpuff, on 27 February 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

The other way to do it is to set 2 lasers to a certain weapon group and have another weapon group fire all 3 ML's. I do that - I have the center torso ML's set to one group and the arm ML to another group so I can fire both groups or just one group at a time.

Yeah, true. For me it was trading the 3rd ML for a third ton of SRM ammo... The latter will do a lot more damage in most cases . I had to trim he build somewhere to fit the XL275 in and it came down to sacrificing one heat sink or the extra ML. After trying out both (as well as downsizing one SRM rack), the ML was the thing I seemed to need the least.

[Frank the Tank]

Interceptor12, on 27 February 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

I will admit I have given it thought to optimize for more close range engagement, but to be honest I'm comfortable with my opponent choosing the distance.The reason I'm comfortable about this is because I know my arsenal can return fire to him at almost any distance he could choose. in essence, my weapon choices are not so much to control the course of the battle, but to adapt to what may come. While I do admit it is likely more optimized for organized play, I have found it is surprisingly effective in solo games. I have a racked considerable number of assists from this mech, and taken down quite a few assaults who underestimated the firepower my mech and forgot to pay attention to their armor levels. So long as you stick with your friends and utilize every bit of your mech, its surprisingly effective.

in the words of Bruce Lee, "Be water my friend".

I think you miss understand Phaesphoros' point. Its not bad to be multi-purpose its bad to have too much variation with your ranges. ER LL is 675m were as the MPLs are 180m; that's a big gap where you can only do damage with the ER LL and LRMs before an enemy closes range. Then once they get to 180m you can use your MPLs, but not your LRMs.

I prefer to use a single PPC with standard LLs and MLs whose ranges overlap very effectively. I can still deal damage at a distance with the LL and PPC if I need to but once the enemy closes into the "sweet spot" of 450 - 200m I can do some serious damage with all my weapons including LRMs and PPC.

Your build doesn't have a "sweet spot," because the MPLs are only effective around 180m (where you can't use your LRMs) and the ER LL is not as effective in a close range due to its heat. Basically at range your MPLs are 4 tons of wasted weight, and in close your LRMs and ER LL become wasted weight. However, don't be fooled into thinking you need to have either all long range or all short range. Instead look for the sweet spot range where your weapons' range overlap.

Additionally swap the LRM10 for 2 LRM5s to save 1 ton of weight, but switch back to the LRM10 if you use Artemis. You should always do this with any mech that has multiple missile hard-points.

This is my PPC and LL CN9-AL build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a8dad8e9ad5e1de

[Aeolus Drift]

Frank the Tank, on 27 February 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I think you miss understand Phaesphoros' point. Its not bad to be multi-purpose its bad to have too much variation with your ranges. ER LL is 675m were as the MPLs are 180m; that's a big gap where you can only do damage with the ER LL and LRMs before an enemy closes range. Then once they get to 180m you can use your MPLs, but not your LRMs.

I prefer to use a single PPC with standard LLs and MLs whose ranges overlap very effectively. I can still deal damage at a distance with the LL and PPC if I need to but once the enemy closes into the "sweet spot" of 450 - 200m I can do some serious damage with all my weapons including LRMs and PPC.

Your build doesn't have a "sweet spot," because the MPLs are only effective around 180m (where you can't use your LRMs) and the ER LL is not as effective in a close range due to its heat. Basically at range your MPLs are 4 tons of wasted weight, and in close your LRMs and ER LL become wasted weight. However, don't be fooled into thinking you need to have either all long range or all short range. Instead look for the sweet spot range where your weapons' range overlap.

Additionally swap the LRM10 for 2 LRM5s to save 1 ton of weight, but switch back to the LRM10 if you use Artemis. You should always do this with any mech that has multiple missile hard-points.

Hmm I have not thought to change my lrm launchers yet, I might consider the tip. As for my issues with range variation, I tend not to see it as that big of an issue since the ER Large Laser is still usable at close range. Granted maintaining an alpha window that is approximately that lies between 170-180 m away isn't a real practical plan, but generally I retire my LRM's once they get that close, I generally tend to start using my medium laser as they close into 270 m, and add the medium pulses shortly afterword. once I add the medium pulse lasers I begin to phase out my LRM's so that I can concentrate my gunnery onto my lasers.
on a side note, it appears your build tends to have much greater emphasis-on alpha power then my build carries. my build is more towards maximizing the sustainable firepower of the chassis, and I have used up every single space and ton for upgrading, and I have found it to work well in most circumstances. But I suppose to each is his own, if your build works for you my props to you sir.

Edited by Interceptor12, 27 February 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[NRP]

My AL build:

XL275
2 PPCs
2 MLs
2 SRM2s
DHS
Endo

It works pretty well as a sniper/striker/general PITA. It's fast (98 kph), can fire quite a few 20 dmg PPC volleys before going critical, and has MLs and SRMs for clean up duty.

[Tremendous Upside]

NRP, on 27 February 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

My AL build:

XL275
2 PPCs
2 MLs
2 SRM2s
DHS
Endo

It works pretty well as a sniper/striker/general PITA. It's fast (98 kph), can fire quite a few 20 dmg PPC volleys before going critical, and has MLs and SRMs for clean up duty.

How much armor and how many heat sinks are you running? I may need to try this out

[Kraven Kor]

Phaesphoros, on 27 February 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

My 2 cents xD

I don't like all-range mechs.

Eh, all-range mechs are fine, if they also fair equally at all ranges. An ER-PPC or Large Laser build is, for the most part, equally capable as a brawler or mid to long range sniper.

Or having a few long range weapons backed up by medium lasers - a threat at long range, equally or more of a threat at close range.

But I feel mixing LRM's with SRM's, for instance, is a bit of a waste, as what you end up with is less firepower at both long and short range as compared to a more complimentary loadout.

[Wrenchfarm]

This isn't something I'd run myself, but I can appreciate the sentiment behind it! Runs like a upgraded version of the Stock CN9-AL, true to the original concept of the mech (too bad this game rewards over-specialization)

I did make a few modifications I think might make the mech better overall, check it out.

Changing the MPLAS to regular MLAS and switching the LRM10 to 2xLRM5 does a few nice things for the build.

With the weight saved we are able to upgrade to the sprightly 225 engine. You'll still be an escort specialist, but a little more hop never hurt anyone.

3xMLAS makes sense to me. Gives you a little more range with your mid-field weapons, takes a little less heat, and keeps everything on the same firing pattern. Personally, I don't really like MPLAS that much, seems like you make a lot of concessions for dubious payoffs.

As Frank the Tank said, switching to 2xLRM5s gives you some extra weight to play with at no loss of effectiveness! What he didn't mention is that it will actually pump up your firing speed, tighten your grouping, and increasing your damage overall! So next time you see that Stalker lumbering in the middle of the lake, you can really let him have it.

I dropped CASE and put the LRM ammo in the legs. IMO there is no reason to store ammo in the chest as long as you have space in the legs. Especially when they are fully armoured. With the crit space saved I also swapped one of the arm heat sinks out and put it in the chest. A little safer, you won't lose the sink when the arm gets focused off.


Speaking of, I left the armour values alone in this build, but I would consider shaving a ton off the legs and slotting in one more ton of LRM ammo. 360 ammo should be fine for 2xLRM5, but more is always nice. Being legged is very rare, you can probably shave that ton with no ill effect.

I like the spirit behind this build! I hope my suggestions help make it a little bit tighter. It would be nice if rounded more generalized builds were stronger in this game!

[Kraven Kor]

Oh, my AL build right now:

4x MPulse (2x RA, 2x CT)
2x SRM-6 (LT)
2 tons SRM Ammo
XL 275
Endo Steel, DHS
Max but for a few points of armor (333 of 338)

98kph w/ Speedtweak and a 54 point alpha with 1.2 heat efficiency.

You can swap out the MPulse for MLas to get more SRM-6 ammo, or maybe add Artemis, but the pulse lasers seem to help me "not fail" when fighting lights. Generally.

Edit: Works on Alpine if you are good at being sneaky.

Sucks on Alpine if you can't find a way from Point A in a valley to Point B on high ground where the enemy is shooting you from

Edited by Kraven Kor, 27 February 2013 - 05:05 PM.

[Waladil]

To the OP, you could remove that 1x LRM-10 and replace with 2x LRM-5s. That'll get you better DPS (LRM 5 racks have a shorter reload time) and save a ton. Then put that ton into... something else. A 205 engine rather than 200?

EDIT: I did a more full redesign, based on Wrenchfarm's suggestion. Mine's a little weaker on the heatsinks, but I fit in a bigger engine (to get another 2.0 DHS) and put in AMS, to make you a better escort in long-range battles.
Try me!

Edit X2: I was just leaving extra speed on the table! Fixed it this time (and a tiny bit more armor!)
Try me instead!

Edited by Waladil, 27 February 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

ALs are not really cut out for the smashy role, and that speed drop is going to be a problem for you. Personally, I favor the Zedturion AL. Simple, sturdy, deadly.

40FP
STD260
DHS
Endo
STD Armor, all maxed save legs.
4ML
2SSRM4+Artemis. (Or SSRM6, if you are a spambot, and dont mind overheating more often.)


This mech can keep fighting and getting results even after losing both arms and torso sides, and has a shield arm to boot. Without any reservations, I believe this build to be more effective than any 4SP, and I use it to regularly gank other centurions of every variety, including the YLW.

[Garfuncle]

I use something that's close to this:

ST250
DHS
1LL
3ML
SRM4x2 plus 1 ton of ammo
Endo steel.

Does 81 klicks, has a solid alpha, and is ammo independant. Also whatever you do don't just boat srms in the torso and ignore the ra hardpoints...apparently that's the comp way to build cents...but that just sucks.

[NRP]

Banky, on 27 February 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

How much armor and how many heat sinks are you running? I may need to try this out

15 DHS (HE = 1.21)
304 armor

[Frank the Tank]

Interceptor12, on 27 February 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

on a side note, it appears your build tends to have much greater emphasis-on alpha power then my build carries. my build is more towards maximizing the sustainable firepower of the chassis, and I have used up every single space and ton for upgrading, and I have found it to work well in most circumstances. But I suppose to each is his own, if your build works for you my props to you sir.

My build is not an alpha build. You really can't alpha a PPC, LL, and 2 MLs with only 12 DHS, nor should you. The sweet spot is very important to staging engagements though. I am doing my best possible damage between 200 - 450m, and If I can keep the enemy at a distance of +300m then they can't hit my with SRMs (which are in favor with a lot of builds right now). However, don't think I'm alpha striking ever second I can in the sweet spot. It takes a lot of finesse, but you can remain heat stable by alternating between MLs and LL while constantly dropping LRMs on target. Once you start using lasers you need to only fire the PPC when you have a clear shot on an exposed internal.

I really like Wrenchfarm's suggestions. Definitely keep the ER LL that's what makes you build unique, but switch the MPLs for MLs. This puts your sweet spot around the same range as mine; all you have to do is keep the enemy out of SRM range and you'll be set. If you really want it, you could put an MPL in the arm so you can take advantage of its reach.

Also go 18/18 armor on your head, and 47/48 on the legs. You need all of that head armor just in case you take a nasty AC/20 or gauss hit. Also spread the ammo out to each leg; if you do lose the leg you don't want to lose all the ammo. Lastly, if you switch to MLs you might not need all those DHS. I intend to give this build a try, but we all have our own preferences when it comes to how hot our mechs should run.

[Devil Fox]

The comp way to build Cent's is use the 9-A which has 3 missile in the torso and ballistic in the arm... using both arms as shields with large engines and 3 SRM6's is really solid... afterall it's the arm's that take the brunt of the initial damage. On something like the AL I run a Std 200, 2LL, 2ML and 2 SRM4 with ammo, ain't fast, ain't powerful but it can punish opponents that are fighting friendlies.