43 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Headlessnewt, on 27 February 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

The more I play MWO the more different ways I come to dislike the way ECM works. Just now I was noticing how much time ECM makes me spend in Thermal Vision. If I can't see a little arrow above my opponents' heads, I need to be in Thermal where they'll light up nicely so I can shoot them. This makes essentially any other method of looking at the game pointless, except in well-lit maps (Alpine, Frozen City Night) at reasonable ranges or in Caustic Valley, where Thermal is useless anyway. (Heaven forbid we ever have a map as hot as Caustic that is also a night map.) I became aware of this when I, piloting my Glass Catapult (2xAC/20 K2), came out of the cave in Forest colony and started hunting down the one person who popped up on my radar, only to have two atlases and a stalker that I didn't notice because I was in normal vision open up on my flank. Sure I got impetuous but if I'd been in thermal like a smart pilot I would have noticed them. Or I would have noticed them if my radar were capable of going 'there's a mech there.' Anyway, yet another plea for ECM to not prevent lockon. I don't mind it cancelling missile lock, I don't mind it cancelling gaining information about mechs hidden by ECM, I don't mind it messing with my HUD when I get close to it, but for Blake's sake at least make it so that I am not nerfing myself when I want to see the graphics engine you made rather than having the thermal filter up.

I agree with ECM should not prevent simple target lockon, but I personally have less issue with ECM in general--I have more beef with Raven 3L.

I am just addicted to Thermal. Who cares about pretty flowers when you are blowing stuff up--even though I am playing it in full graphics.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 February 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[CrashieJ]

Real life does not have a 700 meter draw distance.

/endrant/

[Gaan Cathal]

gavilatius, on 27 February 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

Real life does not have a 700 meter draw distance.

/endrant/

Unbalanced as hell though

[Scurry]

Also, before insulting people for not being able to see as far as you do, bear in mind that vision range can depend heavily on your monitor size and quality. Don't blame people for not having the money to buy better gear.

Also, before insulting people for not being able to see as far as you do, bear in mind that vision range can depend heavily on your monitor size and quality. Don't blame people for not having the money to buy better gear.

[Royalewithcheese]

Gaan Cathal, on 27 February 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Unbalanced as hell though

America OP nerf plox

[Budor]

I feel pressed to thermal allthetimeofthetime...it blows.

[Oni Ralas]

GB Krubarax, on 27 February 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Your radar saying "low signal" and the flickering HUD is kind of saying "there is a mech there, and it has ECM" Do not blame ECM for fools rushing in.

If you see the ECM Jam, then yes. However, you do realize ECM stealth mechs way beyond your ECM Jam detection right? That is his point - the ECM bubble hid these two from map view until visual (which can be hard to detect with surrounding cover) was already too late. You can't just rely on waiting to see Jam to know there is *someone* near by -- anywhere from 30 to 100 tons :|

ECM should not mask (stealth) a mech - merely make it hard/impossible to aquire lock. Stealth aspect is a totally separate product

Scurry, on 27 February 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Also, before insulting people for not being able to see as far as you do, bear in mind that vision range can depend heavily on your monitor size and quality. Don't blame people for not having the money to buy better gear.

Correct. I play when I'm on the road all the time - on a 15.6" laptop screen. At home I have 3 32" 1080p screens w/ eyefinity hooked up. Makes one hellova cockpit feel. I obviously shoot better/snipe at home

[Primetimex]

In the forest colony area it is pretty dark - almost like dusk-evening type of lighting so it's pretty hard to make out anything in the distance, especially the drab green/greys of the terrain and environment further obscures your vision.

I've got a 30" monitor and still had to use Thermal vision to "filter" out all the muck and see if there is a Mech shaped outline far away skulking/sniping/moving.

Targeting them now is not really a good idea either if you want to outflank/catch them from the rear since that Bitching Betty warning was introduced ....

[Headlessnewt]

To answer several comments: The situation was what made me notice the problem, not necessarily illustrative of the problem itself. Bad example, sorry.

Yes, I played stupid and that's why I died. I'm not blaming game mechanics for getting killed, or saying that I shouldn't have under the circumstances. What I'm saying is that if I had been using Thermal Vision I probably would have noticed the hook, and therefore that my combat performance was impaired due to my not using Thermal Vision.

The point that I'm trying to make (and that many people have picked up on) is that Thermal Vision is a common counter to the ECM lock-on umbrella.

Further, I make the observation that I think this is both not very much fun and a waste of a lot of graphics. Also, Devs, counter to your monetization: If we're always in thermal, we're not going to pay you money for paint jobs!

[Pihb]

the only time thermal is on 100% of the time is river city night. i use thermal to spot. i switch back to normal to shoot and stuff usually. You people are crazy. You try to use like 1/3 of your mechs capabilities and wonder why a simple thing like ecm ruins your day.

[QuaxDerBruchpilot]

Switching to thermal view from time to time is part of my standard behaviour in MWO, even on (bright clrear) Frozen City Night and (thermal active) Caustic, because especially on larger distances it's easier to recognize enemy movement that way.

However, I see no specific need to run in thermal once you're entering infight.

Side note: even in RL (military), you switch to thermal sight to recon the area in front of you. So nothing unusual here.

[Flapdrol]

thermal is too good not to use

apart from caustic I play pretty much all the maps in 100% thermal vision.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

I use thermal 100% of the time. No exceptions. Being able to get the first shot off is just soooooo good.

[ReguIus]

Kind of amusing to read through the first page and notice that like 2-3 posts had anything to do with the point of this thread. Regardless, I too think Heat Vision is stupid. The worst thing is that it completely ignores every single environmental effect. Night? Rain? Fog? Blizzard? No worries, Heat Sees Through All. Even in Alpine Peaks it is incredibly useful no matter what people are saying. It's a cold, hard fact that Heat Vision gives you perception that is a league apart to the naked eye.

Why do I bother? Because I want my expensive camo paints to be worth something... Yah...

[Shae Starfyre]

This reminds me of the Predator looking for an enemy.

When he suspects "situational awareness required" he flips through the vision spectrum for tell-tale signs.

I use all vision modes. Sometimes I use NV to see my path ahead better, or Thermal to detect heat around corners.

It is amazing what NV will portray that Thermal will not, and the reverse is true. I think a lot of people who complain about singular things, are not really taking a step back and looking at what the game really has to offer.

Experience the game, win later.

Edited by Aphoticus, 28 February 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[CheeseThief]

Outside of Frozen City snowstorm edition, I rarely use thermal besides checking for targets at extreme range, it's much easier for me to pick out a mechs facing, weapon types, movement speed and target with normal or night vision.

[ReguIus]

I'm willing to bet that isn't true for River City night - which also happens to be a good example. The whole idea of the map was that you have to "adapt" to the low light conditions. It's ironic how much man hours boiled down to nothing simply because of Heat Vision.

1) Heat Vision doesn't differentiate Night or Day conditions

2) Heat Vision is superior to Night Vision in almost (9 times out of 10) every situation.

With Heat Vision being so easily available the only difference between maps is the terrain... Whoopie-Doo.


Under current implementation, anyone not using thermals all the time is just shooting oneself to the leg. With one press of a button you enhance your situational awarness 100% with no practical downside. That's an epitome of screwd up design.

[FrDrake]

@Tarman

No one's eyes can see through trees and weather effects, I don't care if you want to call it a crutch, mechs would be invisible to regular vision yet show up easily on thermal vision. I've had the same thought before as the OP, and when I am spectating someone in normal vision I often think about how pretty all the effects and mechs are and wish I wasn't relegated to using stupid thermal vision so much just because it is so far superior to the regular vision mode.

If you're not using thermal judiciously then you're only gimping yourself, the only time I'm not in thermal is when I'm in the middle of a firefight and shut myself down because when the mech starts back up the thermal is off.

[Tarman]

FrDrake, on 28 February 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

@Tarman

No one's eyes can see through trees and weather effects, I don't care if you want to call it a crutch, mechs would be invisible to regular vision yet show up easily on thermal vision. I've had the same thought before as the OP, and when I am spectating someone in normal vision I often think about how pretty all the effects and mechs are and wish I wasn't relegated to using stupid thermal vision so much just because it is so far superior to the regular vision mode.

If you're not using thermal judiciously then you're only gimping yourself, the only time I'm not in thermal is when I'm in the middle of a firefight and shut myself down because when the mech starts back up the thermal is off.

Again, look how you framed it, as if you don't have a choice. The only person "relegating" you to 100% thermal is you. About how you can't play properly without it, and that is simply not a blanket truth. You personally have adapted yourself to use it to the point where you can't NOT use it. You're literally making your own regular vision less useful as you train yourself to play Shoot Colour Blobs. The only excuse for it that makes any sense to me that has been posted in this thread is having a really crappy monitor.

[FrDrake]

I do play on a 20" laptop so not sure if that puts me in the "crappy monitor" category, but there is no way I would be able to see mechs at the distance in normal vision as I can in thermal.

*Edit* Before ECM I used thermal maybe 5% of the time (if that), I have ONLY started using thermal since ECM came along and took away my ability to get targeting boxes.

Edited by FrDrake, 28 February 2013 - 07:30 AM.