133 replies to this topic

[Spinning Burr]

Let's compare AC10 to PPC and to ERPPC. I challenge anyone to list a single reason why they would mount an AC10 over a PPC or ERPPC if they have the option of picking one at the same hardpoint location. The PPCs are 7 tons vs 12 tons. Unlimited ammo vs needing at least 1-2 tons ammo that can explode your entire section housing it. Both do identical 10 points "ballistic" damage immediately to a targeted location. The PPCs now have an anti-ECM benefit to a successful hit in addition to 10 points damage. The projectile speed feels about twice as fast. AC10 slug is still like firing an AC20 shell. Recycle time of 2 secs vs 3 secs. Heat generation on AC10 is NOT negligible and not that much less than basic PPC after last heavy beam tweaks and patches. PPC's have superior max range to AC10. PPC shot doesn't drop at far distance, while AC10 sniping requires aiming correction for bullet speed AND bullet arc.

Let's recap:
PPC/ERPPC is half the weight (AC10 ammo included)
Same "ballistic" damage plus anti-ECM bonus per hit
"Twice" as fast projectile speed with no projectile arc
No ammo explosion liability
50% faster recycle time for roughly 50% more heat from PPC and 100% more heat from ERPPC
20% more range from PPC and 80% more range from ERPPC in exchange for heat

Now why would you mount an AC10 on a mech? It looks like an automatic liability. If you can't mount a beam and need or want to mount ballistics, that's fine. But why AC10?

[Skaroth]

This is why you see very few Ac 10s

[Aethon]

Spinning Burr, on 27 February 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Now why would you mount an AC10 on a mech?

Because the PPC does not fit in ballistic slots.

Also, the AC/10 has the coolest reloading sound in the game.

Edited by Aethon, 27 February 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[TheForce]

the AC10 is crap compared to grouping 3 SRM6's.

[hammerreborn]

Spinning Burr, on 27 February 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Let's compare AC10 to PPC and to ERPPC. I challenge anyone to list a single reason why they would mount an AC10 over a PPC or ERPPC if they have the option of picking one at the same hardpoint location. The PPCs are 7 tons vs 12 tons. Unlimited ammo vs needing at least 1-2 tons ammo that can explode your entire section housing it. Both do identical 10 points "ballistic" damage immediately to a targeted location. The PPCs now have an anti-ECM benefit to a successful hit in addition to 10 points damage. The projectile speed feels about twice as fast. AC10 slug is still like firing an AC20 shell. Recycle time of 2 secs vs 3 secs. Heat generation on AC10 is NOT negligible and not that much less than basic PPC after last heavy beam tweaks and patches. PPC's have superior max range to AC10. PPC shot doesn't drop at far distance, while AC10 sniping requires aiming correction for bullet speed AND bullet arc.

Let's recap:
PPC/ERPPC is half the weight (AC10 ammo included)
Same "ballistic" damage plus anti-ECM bonus per hit
"Twice" as fast projectile speed with no projectile arc
No ammo explosion liability
50% faster recycle time for roughly 50% more heat from PPC and 100% more heat from ERPPC
20% more range from PPC and 80% more range from ERPPC in exchange for heat

Now why would you mount an AC10 on a mech? It looks like an automatic liability. If you can't mount a beam and need or want to mount ballistics, that's fine. But why AC10?

Because while the PPC may way 7 tons, you still have to spend another 5 to make that **** fire without cooking you alive (obviously not intended to be a true mathematical statement).

Basically, heat.

[DocBach]

AC/10 still has way less heat than either a PPC or triple SRM's - it gives you longer endurance before shutting down.

[Ragor]

Tell this my dual AC10 + 4 ML K2 ("Dude") running heatneutral at 81 kph with maxed out armor and 90 shots (45 salvos) for the two AC10.

Edited by Ragor, 27 February 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[UnseenFury]

Common knowledge is that AC/10 needs a faster cooldown time (the time between shots). Would be an appropriate buff.

[Antonio]

Spinning Burr, on 27 February 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Heat generation on AC10 is NOT negligible and not that much less than basic PPC after last heavy beam tweaks and patches.

Uhh...Heat for AC10 is 3 and for PPC is 8. I would consider that a significant difference. Also, don't forget the min range on PPC and range on AC10 is better than on PPC. I do not disagree with you on some of the other points though.

[Spinning Burr]

I guess what I'm saying is that AC10 needs a buff. But let's examine the other guns. People are questioning the utility of LBX10 compared to AC10. So is it even worse than the poor AC10? The AC2 is like mounting a single small laser except that each small laser is 0.5 tons while each AC2 is 6+1 tons. The AC5 lacks clear role and identity when compared to UAC5. The UAC5 jams and you have to deal with that, otherwise it's a sweet gun and well worth the 9+2 tons. The AC20 has an identity and a place in the game. It's nice when it hits something. Bring extra ammo. The gauss is perfectly balanced right now as a ballistic weapon.

[Vasces Diablo]

Poor AC 10. Even in its own weapon class, it is has to compete with 2 direct alternatives (ultra AC 5 and LB 10X)

[hashinshin]

Although I would like to point out AC10 + 2 PPCs allows you to fire for extended period of times as compared to the 4x PPC which overheats in 3 seconds, I think the math provided here points to a very anti-AC10 game.

Perhaps we could increase the AC10's fire rate and then increase it's ammo to 20 per ton so as to increase total DPS and keep it more in line with weight requirements.

[Roland]

Hey, at least it's better than the LBX10.

[Lord Ikka]

Well, I think the A/C 10 suffers from two disadvantages against other ACs- It doesn't do the sheer damage of a AC20, and it isn't as fast as a UAC5, meaning that its stuck in the middle ground with no real advantages over taking on of the others.

Versus the PPC, well you can pack in seven heatsinks and a PPC for the same tonnage as a AC10 and 2 tons of ammo. Seven heatsinks is enough to keep the PPC well cooled, with unlimited shots.

[Monkey Bone]

AC10 goes on the ac2x2 ac10x2 dakkaphract!

[Hedonism Robot]

Especially when compared to the UAC the AC10 just doesn't have a spot in this world!

[Josef Nader]

5 fewer points of heat is not insignificant. It also has a longer maximum range (source), shorter cooldown, and better DPS.

It's not much, but from a purely numbers standpoint the AC10 is better if you have the weight.

Edited by Josef Nader, 27 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

TheForce, on 27 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

the AC10 is crap compared to grouping 3 SRM6's.

Please refer...

Aethon, on 27 February 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Because the SRM does not fit in ballistic slots.

Also, the AC/10 has the coolest reloading sound in the game.

To the above post!

[Coolant]

I agree that PPC is probably preferable, but AC10 has 2.5 Recycle, and also creates knock...

[hammerreborn]

Spinning Burr, on 27 February 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

I guess what I'm saying is that AC10 needs a buff. But let's examine the other guns. People are questioning the utility of LBX10 compared to AC10. So is it even worse than the poor AC10? The AC2 is like mounting a single small laser except that each small laser is 0.5 tons while each AC2 is 6+1 tons. The AC5 lacks clear role and identity when compared to UAC5. The UAC5 jams and you have to deal with that, otherwise it's a sweet gun and well worth the 9+2 tons. The AC20 has an identity and a place in the game. It's nice when it hits something. Bring extra ammo. The gauss is perfectly balanced right now as a ballistic weapon.

Now you've completely lost me. An Ac2 is like mounting a small laser...if a small laser was a machine gun that could fire across the entire map.