34 replies to this topic

[Stringburka]

I think often when people say realism they mean verisimilitude or simple common sense.

[Voridan Atreides]

focuspark, on 28 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Are you actually citing realism in a game about giant stompy, fusion powered, 1950's-era-technology robots?

Umm no. What base does not have defenses?

[focuspark]

Voridan Atreides, on 28 February 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Umm no. What base does not have defenses?

The one with no people in it.

[MaddMaxx]

Any base that could provide self protection would have to large enough to get inside of and provide places to hide from roughly 50% of said "defenses".

The way MW4 did it was cool. The "defenses" were controlled by automated stations that could be destroyed thus shutting down the defense grid. A capture element would be cool as well. Like a Base cap but it would allow the attacker a chance to turn the base weapons against their owners. Would work best for Conquest on any of the Large Maps. Cap the Defense Grid first, then the actual Point.

After a full base cap, that would provide both, the current owner or those who converted, more time to get back to prevent the reversal of both defense and or base cap. Times to cap and convert would be equal. Two Mechs, each doing one item would make the total the same as it is now to simply cap the base.

[FrostCollar]

I certainly like the idea of automated defenses for a new game mode, but probably not for the existing ones. If one 'mech manages to get a cap win instead of facing 2-3 enemy mechs, I think their win is to be commended. With turrets at every base there'd be more of a chance that they'd get shot down by automated guns. That doesn't seem very fun for either team.

Ultimately, despite all the flaws in the current gamemodes, the different bases make for a better game by preventing enemy mechs from attempting to avoid their foes indefinitely or all staying together in a tight phalanx and slowly moving around. In addition, the last thing this game needs is more ECM (and therefore yet another reason encouraging players to take ECM).

Syllogy, on 28 February 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

Already in the Concept Stage, along with Battlesuits, Tanks, Infantry, and Airborne Vehicles all piloted by NPCs.

It's been a while - when and where was this mentioned before?

[lolmaster]

Rough idea:You could just have a nice amount of defenses that beat up a mech real bad but don't kill it because they heat up quicker than normal weapons.

[ragingmunkyz]

Well it's been said it before, but something needs to be done with assault. Right now its a jack of two trades and master of neither. Its half TDM and half base capture, with neither feature being fully fleshed out or properly emphasized. If you want the game type to be TDM, remove the bases as a means of victory, allow the game mode only on smaller maps. If you want the game type to be base assault, give us more options and incentives for base defense.

The new reward for killing a capping enemy is a big step in the right direction, but base defenses would also help, as long as they were somehow a part of the mech building process. I like the idea of needing a command console to activate automated defenses, or else having a deployable module like a turret that can defend. You should be able to destroy these defenses, but they need to be enough of a deterrent to harass lone cappers and resilient enough to buy time for a team to get back in position. An organized group of cappers should, however, be able to neutralize and capture the base effectively. This way it encourages base capping as a legitimate strategy while discouraging a lone light from dictating the whole battle just because the other team didn't drop with any fast mechs.

Edited by ragingmunkyz, 05 March 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[CryptRunner]

But for the "invading force" it shouldn't be a base, it should be a dropship.

[Cpt Beefheart]

MaddMaxx, on 28 February 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Any base that could provide self protection would have to large enough to get inside of and provide places to hide from roughly 50% of said "defenses".

The way MW4 did it was cool. The "defenses" were controlled by automated stations that could be destroyed thus shutting down the defense grid. A capture element would be cool as well. Like a Base cap but it would allow the attacker a chance to turn the base weapons against their owners. Would work best for Conquest on any of the Large Maps. Cap the Defense Grid first, then the actual Point.

After a full base cap, that would provide both, the current owner or those who converted, more time to get back to prevent the reversal of both defense and or base cap. Times to cap and convert would be equal. Two Mechs, each doing one item would make the total the same as it is now to simply cap the base.

I really like this idea actually. It adds a new element to the game that would encourage assaulting the enemy base (as the name Assault suggests) by reversing the idea and giving players incentive to stay in the base - because it's safe and a nice place to sit and barrage the enemy with LRMs.

Having the controls for the base capturable, and behind the base (perhaps just outside of 800m, so defenders who stay basebound will have to use long range weapons) forces any player who chooses to roam outside of the base to have to pick between assaulting the enemy base or defending their own node. If they lose their node, the base's defences would turn on the defending mechs and there goes the LRM barrages.

If course, because you can only win the game by destroying the enemy or capturing their base, you're going to *have* to leave the base to win, but staying would give you greater chance of survival.

Something does have to be done about Assault, as it's less of a "capture the flag" game and more of a "fight till there's one light mech left and then race to the enemy base" game.

[Kraven Kor]

I'm all for Automated defenses.

They should be terrible at selecting targets, unless directed by the Commander which requires a Command Console.

They should have like 50% accuracy at best, or a slower ROF than mech-mounted weapons (like, 1 shot per 10 seconds for a Dual Medium Laser Tower.)

Literally, all they should do is delay mechs trying to cap rush.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 06 March 2013 - 07:27 AM.

[ZXrenegade]

I like the idea of automated defenses but the same as a few other posts it shouldnt be overwhelming by any means,

However since this will most likely be a different game mode why not also implement other ideas in it...such as capping potential assets in the battle. Basically a conquest game with a twist.
The points could be the following with benefits as well...
-Reloading / limited repair bay
-Artillery encampment / Airstrip
-SAT-COM
-Friendly Base status
-Enemy base status

[Redwood Elf]

ZXrenegade, on 04 August 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

I like the idea of automated defenses but the same as a few other posts it shouldnt be overwhelming by any means,
-Reloading / limited repair bay

Reloading? Maybe...Repair, forget it...repairing mechs takes hours and isn't the sort of thing a mech pilot would trust to an automated system.

As for defenses themselves, I would limit it to perhaps 6 weapons total, and limited to very short range and low damage weapons like Flamers, Small Lasers, and Machine guns. Just disable base capture so long as any of the defense turrets are still active, and give a 'Base defenses are under attack' when they are damaged.

[Volomon]

Here's my take on this. All cap points should be replaced instead of these weird oil drill platforms have small laser cannons at each location for conquest with a lrm tower at theta which also houses a ammo hanger. These towers can be switched from team to team depending on who controls the point or the tower can just be blown up, then capped like normal.

Annihilation however each base has a lrm and laser defenses. I suggest putting an ammo cache in the middle of the map as well. These ammo caches will be heavily fought over. If heavily damage they explode, if anyone is loading up ammo during it's explosion they are dead. Loading ammo should also take a really long time say 40 secs and only one person at a time can do it.

You could also possibly have a repair bay at the middle next to the ammo cache, which could increase armor to all points X amount say 30 points of armor. Does not fix internal or repair weapons. Also takes 40 secs and only one person at a time can repair, and the repair bay may only be used three times for the entire game.


Alternatively conquest could have two ammo points which are your starting location, one artillery tower which when capped gives anyone who has a command console and has taken control of the lances the ability to drop a artillery. Only one use per game, the lance who caps it auto gives it to any unit at random in their lance, if none are found it transfers to the next lance and so on. The other tower would be an air strike exactly like above and the middle one would again be automated repair three uses and only patch work on the armor.

Edited by Volomon, 06 August 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[FireDog]

Any AI driven element would be a great addition to the game. PGI already has portable turrets, but imagine a mix of larger, longer ranged laser/gun/missile turrets mounted on fort walls, concealed in pillboxes or mounted on mobile tracked chassis' using smart AI to direct their fire. PGI could start off by inserting these AI/PvE elements into a Mission style game mode like we had in the latter stages of MW4. Some guys (mainly Load Magmas I recall) tweaked up a batch of new missions maps using AI controlled elements for the MW4 Sunder server.

One mission map, Flooded City, had three base generator that could be destroyed to disable the city's turrets and strong point defenses. Additionally the same map had swarms of hovercraft coming to support the side who first reach a pylon in the middle of the map. Two others, Delta Base and EndorAssault, had forts full of turrets that could be hacked and turned upon the fort's own defenders. We even had a large mission base map in which the attacking "resistance" mechs had to take down the base's commander (piloting an Atlas) or destroy his entire player team to force his surrender. Yep, Col Renard had many a bad day. Yes, AI/PvE elements were getting big toward the end of MekTek's MW4 Merc era. One of the best team battle maps had swarms of demolisher tanks on both sides that entered the fray after a dogfight between a dozen or so dropships over our heads that we could help shoot at. Woe to the team who did not bring down the other team's dropships before the grand ground battle had begun.

These AI elements could be at first scripted to add random factors into the game. They would add an feel for combined arms so missing in today's MWO. Helos, tanks, mobile missile launchers, attack hovercraft, even convoy trucks and artillery could be mobile team objectives the attacker would not know where they located at the start of each game, or would be moving throughout the game. After PGI gets a feel for scripting these AI/PvE players/elements, adding a few PvE single player/co-op training modules would be the next step. These modules could be sold though the store for private/public matches or be a MC/C-bill purchase on a per game basis. They would add a rich dimension to MWO that would bring in many new paying customers and keep many long time mechwarriors coming back. PGI, take this game to a higher level and add AI/PvE elements into the fray.

[990Dreams]

In assault, I think we're fine with the turrets as is.

In the newer dropship mode, I'd like to see a variety of turrets.

In conquest, the turrets would have to be super not powerful, otherwise it'd be a pain in the fanny to work with.