142 replies to this topic

[Lord Psycho]

a HBK-4G with 3 MG and 3 flamersis not cheese..it's hilarious!

i have to try the 2 flamer 1 medium laser and 6 tag laser build for the 4 J though...

I know I wil try the trip AC2 on a ILM ........ or maybe the triple PPC and triple MG?

a twin PPC twin Ac2 and 2 SRM6 and an LRM20 D-DC? sure sounds fun to me.....

[Psikez]

I was running around in a Trebuchet with 1 ER PPC and 2 AC2s for hilarious effect

[ATao]

I wonder why some people can't try looking from different POVs .

There are good builds. And there are crap builds. It's ok for people to play on good builds. It's interesting to compete with them, you can get 'em but if you'll make a mistake they'll punish you hard. That is interesting. COMPETITION.

And like I said there are crap builds. All those ac10, lbx, slow lights, xl assaults and so on and so on trials included. So they are "not cheese" but they are boring to play against. You can beat the pulp out of them in no time. There's no real competition going playing against those. There's no real interest in running them as well as those builds lack firepower, have bad heat management, have no specific idea of usage on battlefield, any other problem you name it.

So I say it's fine that more people run good builds. Less crap leads to more challenging and interesting games. Also don't forget that good build doesn't mean auto-win. You still have to show your personal skill of piloting it.

Edited by Alexander Malthus, 28 February 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[Hedonism Robot]

I love it when people call mechs cheese that never even get played in 8v8. I got called out for playing a cheese mech when I killed this guy with my cataphract 3d with 2 large pulse lasers and an AC20. Yes, If i head shot you will die! There are stronger builds in this game though. The only mechs that need balancing are the ECM mechs simply due to them having hardware not available to the rest of the chassis. A small nerf to ecm and buff to AMS and this would remove that.

[Screech]

I am still trying to wrap my head around that jump jets are cheesy.

[KharnZor]

Screech, on 28 February 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

I am still trying to wrap my head around that jump jets are cheesy.

Well they are, they allow you to jump to the cheese faster when its on a high shelf.

[Mr 144]

BLUPRNT, on 28 February 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

There is a recent thread today that speculates the first Clan mechs we see and of these speculations the Nova 12ML's and Super Nova 6ERLL's are in the disussion. So how do these two fit into the definition of boat? Also if they do come into play what are we expected to do with a 6 EH assualt mech? You think Stalkers are mean, wait til they get ahold of this thing.

Super Nova 2
4x ATM9s (short ranged ammo 3dmg each)
2x ERLL (swap to PPCs for less heat)
A 128 point Alpha says what ?

Oh, yeah....and it Jumps

Mr 144

Edited by Mr 144, 28 February 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[Magicbullet141]

what is cheese

[Dragonkindred]

Kunae, on 28 February 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

The "tournament" exacerbated the situation as many of the "leaders" played those builds, exclusively. When the "masses" found out what variants/loadouts they "won" with, they copied them.

FOTM has bred.

This is the answer.

You may close this thread now.

[NocturnalBeast]

Vlad Ward, on 28 February 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

What happens when you get a skilled player behind that D-DC?

Worldview = Crushed.

He can still be taken out by another skilled player in just about any mech.

[Vilheim]

I really don't understand the whine about cheesebuilds.

Part of the fun of the game, and part of the skill of the pilot, rests upon them taking a build that they can perform their very best on. Of course, as with any imperfectly balanced game, there are builds and tactics that most players find they can use easily to great effect. Yes, that means there will be lots of splatcats. That means there will be super alpha stalkers. That means ECM Ravens.

But not all players perform best in these builds. Such as myself. I play best in my Cataphracts overall, and all of them have mixed arms. I do well in them, and can engage at most ranges giving me a lot of flexibility which I like. The average player would probably not like to play my builds, but that's okay. I buy mechs, and find builds for them that work great for me. That is all.

At the same time, I play in a Hunchback 4-P with 9 medium lasers. I suppose in terms of boating, you could call that a "cheese build". But it is certainly not cheese in terms of its popularity (or lack thereof), the large firepower comes with the risk of losing most of your weapons by losing a torso, and heat problems at times (though manageable). But boy, do I perform well in that one as well.

[Irvine]

anything that can run gauss + 2x(ER)PPC will be cheesy

[KharnZor]

Possible Raven hero mech that would have to be cheese, look at the evidence on film!



If this isn't cheese i don't know what is

Edited by KharnZor, 28 February 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[Fooooo]

Ghogiel, on 28 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Boats. Any boat. Also ECM changes any mech into cheese.

short list:

3L ravens
AC20 cats
Splatcats
gausscats
streakmandos
3D jumphracts
DDCs
PPC STKs
LRM boats

So my 4LL Flame is also cheesebuild ? I'm boating only LL.........

What about my zebra cata1x with 4LPL ? Obv cheese mech right ?


It seems by your definition, the only non-cheese mechs would be ones that have a loadout similar to ...

1xSL, 1xML, 1xLL, 1xSRM 1xLRM 1xBallistic.

There is no variety in doing that at all. If everyone did that, then I'm guessing you would say oh you took a gauss instead of ac, thats cheese........ where does it end.

Edited by Fooooo, 01 March 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

[redlance]

Bfvmg, on 28 February 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

So what is NOT considered a cheesebuild? I mean comeon. It seems like everything these days is a cheese build??? AS muchas I hate it, I dont even think the phract-3D in poptarter mode and 2PPC/1Gauss, to me is a cheesebuild. It take skill to target while floating up and down. The raven-31 with ECM, 2 SSRM and 3 lasers is a standard build...not a cheese build. Atlas-DDC with ECM and AC20/gauss/2UAC5, 2LL, 3 LRM/SRM is standard, not cheese. While I hate them with a fricken passion, the LRM boat is not cheese. Miromets with 3UAC5 is not cheese. So what, to you all, constitutes a cheese build? What the definition, and who makes the determination that build is "Cheese"?

agree.

"cheese builds" - people are going to use what they have in front of them to the greatest efficiency possible.

are you getting mad because people wont play how YOU want them to?.

its on the developers to make other options effective, its not on players to use INEFFECTIVE builds in some kind of attempt to balance a game out by themselves. wtf. scrubs.

Edited by redlance, 01 March 2013 - 12:43 AM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

3rdworld, on 28 February 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Welcome to 8 mans.

Everyone scoffed when we told you what mechs were the best (or made some anecdotal argument about doing 700 dmg in a spider).

Now you get to play the cookie cutter hell we have enjoyed.

Yeah why we stopped playing 8 mans.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

redlance, on 01 March 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

agree.

"cheese builds" - people are going to use what they have in front of them to the greatest efficiency possible.

are you getting mad because people wont play how YOU want them to?.

its on the developers to make other options effective, its not on players to use INEFFECTIVE builds in some kind of attempt to balance a game out by themselves. wtf. scrubs.

Well this is a refreshing view from a hard core CoD player. No I just dont want to see MWO online slow fade away, which IMO, it will if there isn't a handle on boating, ecm and streak combo, and the horrible ELO crap. New players wont stay when they see how paper thin the "Mech Lab" is due to 6 ppc stalkers, and 6 SRM splat kats ( yeah there are more but I just soon not go into that right now). Then guys like you will move on to the newest shiny and talk about how bad MWO was.

[Deamhan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 28 February 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

so anything you dont like is cheese lol

No if you actually read through the cheese build threads, you see that those weapons in those quantity on a mech are concidered cheese by most people. They are the lowest common denominator.

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 28 February 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Half of the builds you mentioned aren't even cheese builds...you're just whining about getting killed.

How is a 3xUAC Muromets, Guasspult, or DDC a cheese mech?

UAC is a new one to me....

Gaussapult is total cheese. I've tried it out myself to see.

DDC. I don't say the DDC is cheese. ECM is cheese.


As for the definition...

I think it boils down to 'Low skill for High reward'. Certain builds take less skill than others, yet those same builds that are low skill also grant a much higher reward. They use these builds, inflate their Elo, try out something different, sothing not cheese, and get stomped. So they go back into their cheese build.

[KinLuu]

There are only two kinds of builds.

1. Cheesebuilds
These are those builds that, if your team has them, increase the chance of winning.
2. Trollbuilds
These are those builds that, if your team has them, decrease the chance of winning.

There is nothing in between.