36 replies to this topic

[Foxwalker]

I saw the engine upgrades for the Centurians to 275, but not the Hunchies. Certainly the Founders Hunch could use the love. Oh, well.

[Past]

If the gave the 4G a quirk to make it useable with only 9 heatsinks instead of the 10 minimum I'd be pretty happy. I think its my only mech where ive had builds where i didnt want the 10 minimum in it.

[One Medic Army]

The centurions got buffed because they went over all of the centurions and gave them quirks.
Hunchbacks are probably on the to-do list, and I'm guessing the G is going to get some serious love when that happens, cause as things stand right now it just plain sucks compared to the rest.

[Padic]

They haven't given any Hunchbacks "quirks" yet. I'm sure they will, and I'm sure the 4G will be one of the variants that benefits the most. The 4P and the 4SP, I reckon, will not get as much love.

EDIT: Err, what that guy said.

Edited by Padic, 27 February 2013 - 08:27 PM.

[Zaptruder]

Hunchbacks in general need a few quirks to bring them back some love...

+15% damage reduction to hunch torso for starters... If it's going to draw more fire because of its visibility and store the most valuable equipment in the mech, then it should passively negate some of the hate that it draws.

Better turning rate (not that it's bad, but it'd be nice to differentiate it via it's maneuverability and agility rather than its speed).

Maybe lower arm twist; but increased torso twist; the alignment between the two is increased, allowing for more focused shots, and more agility in the hunch of the mech.

[Davers]

Padic, on 27 February 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

They haven't given any Hunchbacks "quirks" yet. I'm sure they will, and I'm sure the 4G will be one of the variants that benefits the most. The 4P and the 4SP, I reckon, will not get as much love.

EDIT: Err, what that guy said.

I dunno. So far the 'quirks' have been pretty much chassis wide, with a few exceptions made for variants with larger than normal engines to keep them in line with the others. I am very interested in what changes they will make that won't mirror changes made to the Centurion. I think one will be increased up/down torso range to make it easier to get the big gun in.

[p00k]

Zaptruder, on 27 February 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Hunchbacks in general need a few quirks to bring them back some love...

+15% damage reduction to hunch torso for starters... If it's going to draw more fire because of its visibility and store the most valuable equipment in the mech, then it should passively negate some of the hate that it draws.

Better turning rate (not that it's bad, but it'd be nice to differentiate it via it's maneuverability and agility rather than its speed).

Maybe lower arm twist; but increased torso twist; the alignment between the two is increased, allowing for more focused shots, and more agility in the hunch of the mech.

not a fan of arbitrary damage reduction. at least with the missile pods they have a disadvantage of having to be opened and thus delay firing (and frankly i'm not a huge fan of that mechanic either). adjust the hitbox if you want to make that RT less prominent, but no damage reduction

[MadSavage]

There is love!

[DrBlue62]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...833d0449e306933

The best AC20 4G that Cbills can buy.

[Padic]

Davers, on 27 February 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

I dunno. So far the 'quirks' have been pretty much chassis wide, with a few exceptions made for variants with larger than normal engines to keep them in line with the others. I am very interested in what changes they will make that won't mirror changes made to the Centurion. I think one will be increased up/down torso range to make it easier to get the big gun in.

I think that's a good guess.

If I were in their shoes, I would try to make the Centurion to feel like a "cavalry" medium. The right mix of speed and firepower to both "get there in time" and "lay down some hurt when it shows up".

I would try to make the Hunchback feel like an in-fighter. Maybe better torso twisting and/or better vertical aim. I think that Hunchbacks will almost certainly not see the engine buff, and their arms are already insanely flexible. Perhaps even across the board buffs to turning radius. Things are useful in a brawl, but not very helpful in a long-range standoff.

[xRaeder]

Foxwalker, on 27 February 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I saw the engine upgrades for the Centurians to 275, but not the Hunchies. Certainly the Founders Hunch could use the love. Oh, well.

You've obviously never seen me pilot one. I pilot Hunchbacks almost exclusively and I am just as devastating with the 4G as I am with any of the other variants.

2-4 kills per match and 500-900 damage usually.

Edited by xRaeder, 27 February 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[Davers]

Padic, on 27 February 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

I think that's a good guess.

If I were in their shoes, I would try to make the Centurion to feel like a "cavalry" medium. The right mix of speed and firepower to both "get there in time" and "lay down some hurt when it shows up".

I would try to make the Hunchback feel like an in-fighter. Maybe better torso twisting and/or better vertical aim. I think that Hunchbacks will almost certainly not see the engine buff, and their arms are already insanely flexible. Perhaps even across the board buffs to turning radius. Things are useful in a brawl, but not very helpful in a long-range standoff.

A real tight turning radius would be sweet.

[Cest7]

They said they would be rolling out changes to make variants more unique. I'm assuming chassis per patch

[Solis Obscuri]

I love the 4G.


/thread

[valkyrie]

DrBlue62, on 27 February 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...833d0449e306933

The best AC20 4G that Cbills can buy.

Only three tons of ammo? What are you gonna do when the match is halfway over, go "click" at me? My -4G build is a bit slower, but at least I know Tiro Finale is probably going to be 100% in the fight as long as I can keep the hunch on.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...02096d2c7145344

Also, if the Hunch needs any tweaks, it's a minor speed buff, MAYBE raise the maximum armor on the hunch. I'd gladly take some of the tonnage off my other components just to keep the 20 singing.

[Davers]

valkyrie, on 27 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

Only three tons of ammo? What are you gonna do when the match is halfway over, go "click" at me? My -4G build is a bit slower, but at least I know Tiro Finale is probably going to be 100% in the fight as long as I can keep the hunch on.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...02096d2c7145344

Also, if the Hunch needs any tweaks, it's a minor speed buff, MAYBE raise the maximum armor on the hunch. I'd gladly take some of the tonnage off my other components just to keep the 20 singing.

Pretty sure armor changes aren't on the table.

[DrBlue62]

valkyrie, on 27 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

Only three tons of ammo? What are you gonna do when the match is halfway over, go "click" at me? My -4G build is a bit slower, but at least I know Tiro Finale is probably going to be 100% in the fight as long as I can keep the hunch on.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...02096d2c7145344

Also, if the Hunch needs any tweaks, it's a minor speed buff, MAYBE raise the maximum armor on the hunch. I'd gladly take some of the tonnage off my other components just to keep the 20 singing.

If 21 shots only makes it through half the match then 28 wont make it to the end. The AC20 isn't your only weapon, but the one you use to drive the nail into the enemies coffin.

[Zaptruder]

p00k, on 27 February 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

not a fan of arbitrary damage reduction. at least with the missile pods they have a disadvantage of having to be opened and thus delay firing (and frankly i'm not a huge fan of that mechanic either). adjust the hitbox if you want to make that RT less prominent, but no damage reduction

Nah, it's a perfectly servicable mechanic that would help retain the unique shape of mechs while still accounting for the fact that some parts are disproportionately larger/smaller than is ideal for balance.

I mean, ideally, you'd have a template volume (or template surface area) for a given weight class; and damage reduction/penalty would be applied to the part relative to its template scale.

So on a 50t mech, your LT/RT might have a template volume of say... 150m^3... the LT on the 4G is close to the template volume, while the RT on the 4G is significantly larger at 200m^3. As a result, it recieves a proportional DR scaling to the oversized area.

The flipside is on the same hunch, where the arm volumes are smaller than template, it would recieve a damage penalty.


This allows for a system that's much more in line with the original table top rules*, as well as been a relatively intuitive system (i.e. bigger mechs = more armored; bigger parts = better armored) to understand.

*As TT gives an equally distributed chance to hit all parts of a mech; in MWO, the chance to hit parts are skewed based on the size of the hitboxes; without messing with the core intuitive aiming system too much, the solution is to provide more damage absorption to larger parts, so that they take damage proportional to how likely they are to be hit.


If such a system is too much work to implement, then simply use arbitrary numbers to help tweak certain mech parts that have a glaring problem with them... like the oversized hunch on the Hunchback.

The benefit is that Damage Reduction already has precedence in the form of missle bay doors; this is just marrying the idea with the concept of quirks; and serves as a way to provide designers with a more granular and nuanced way of balancing mech types and mech variants.

[valkyrie]

Davers, on 27 February 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Pretty sure armor changes aren't on the table.

To clarify, I'm not asking they give damage reduction or anything like that to the Hunch. But, maybe raising the maximum amount of armor you can put on there would be useful. Nothing huge, maybe just 10 points, but the overall maximum armor capacity of the chassis stays the same, so maybe you'd lose 5 off the LT and 2 off each arm or something.

[xRaeder]

valkyrie, on 27 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

Only three tons of ammo? What are you gonna do when the match is halfway over, go "click" at me? My -4G build is a bit slower, but at least I know Tiro Finale is probably going to be 100% in the fight as long as I can keep the hunch on.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...02096d2c7145344

Also, if the Hunch needs any tweaks, it's a minor speed buff, MAYBE raise the maximum armor on the hunch. I'd gladly take some of the tonnage off my other components just to keep the 20 singing.

This is a much better build than yours. I never overheat unless I'm in the volcano for too long.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4505cc16649e28f

You lose 1 ML but you move so much faster it allows you to skirmish and get in and out of sticky situations.