156 replies to this topic

[TheGreatNoNo]

Jman, you use a 4SP? I suddenly like you more, tell me , does it use srms or streaks? Also, ECM is never a big problem, the only big deal is that its blinds my radar so if my team moves away from me I can`t tell, and that cant be countered by keeping in line of sight of someone and hope they are not faster then you (ally that is) Streaks though need a turn radius cut, seen them literally go into orbit around people.

Edited by Lost One, 28 February 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Teralitha, on 28 February 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

LRMs have many hard counters. They are not cheese.

they always HAVE had counters but as I constantly say, "Its far easier to come here and whine about a weapon system or item to get the devs to break it for you than it is to learn to counter them in the game."

IE LRMs. QQ moar

[Grissnap]

The reason I love MW:O is that its like Magic: The Gathering combined with a FPS combined with a team.

In CCGs like Magic, the very successful players have to combine 1: deckbuilding and 2: play skill in order to win at the highest levels. You can be the best deck builder, but if your playing is off (in other words, you have the right cards in hand, but you play the wrong card) then you will still lose. It can be the other way around too, you can have the best play skill, but if your deck is sub-par, you won't have the right answers in your hand.

MW:O is the same way. Where mech and team composition reflect the deck building element. You need to play the right mechs, with the right loadout that suit your strategy. Just as in magic, where certain cards are clearly better than others, MW:O has mechs / weapons that are clearly better than others. But it doesn't matter how good your mechs are if your pilots are not skilled. Add to this the element of teamplay and coordination, and you have a much deeper element of strategy and skill.

So at the highest levels of play it comes down who has 1) better mech lab skills (able to read the meta) 2) better piloting skills, and 3) better teamwork.

The issue a lot of people have is that we don't have control over our teammates and their builds when you 1-4 man drop. This is where imbalance in loadouts rears its ugly head, because you can have people running top-tier builds mixed in with people running second/third tier builds.

Going back to the card game analogy, its like mixing casual players who make fun decks with tournament players who have the most streamlined decks. It's no fun for either, and in the end skill doesn't matter.

[Mycrus]

Teralitha, on 28 February 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Its about ECM, streaks, and cheese, and no knockdowns. (no I didnt say steak and cheese...)


The purity of the game is sullied by these things. Skill? doesnt matter... Tactics? very little...

Boo..

[Vlad Ward]

Teralitha, on 28 February 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

LRMs have many hard counters. They are not cheese. You can... stand behind a rock, you can... get within 180 meters... you can wear AMS... There are no counters to real cheese, except... moar cheese.

Yes. There are clearly absolutely no counters to weapons with a maximum effective range of 50m. Nope. Not a one. No sirree bob.

[Deamhan]

M A L I C E, on 28 February 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

I don't really know what I use it for other than gawking at a long stream of missiles coming out of my mech while I drink a beer or five and relax.

LRM20 in a NARC launcher. I've never laughed so hard while playing this game.

[Ghogiel]

Teralitha, on 28 February 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

LRMs have many hard counters. They are not cheese. You can... stand behind a rock, you can... get within 180 meters... you can wear AMS... There are no counters to real cheese.

Hey, I didn't make the rules. They are cheese. Have always been cheese. Not as cheesy as streakcats, but more cheesy than a gausscat.

Something like a warm bree that has been sitting out at room temperature for about 2 weeks.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Vlad Ward, on 28 February 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Yes. There are clearly absolutely no counters to weapons with a maximum effective range of 50m. Nope. Not a one. No sirree bob.

especially not ones that can two or three shot nearly any mech in a game where all but one of the maps are claustrophobic rat warrens

Ghogiel, on 28 February 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Hey, I didn't make the rules. They are cheese. Have always been cheese. Not as cheesy as streakcats, but more cheesy than a gausscat.

Something like a warm bree that has been sitting out at room temperature for about 2 weeks.

all I read here is "waah its too hard to figure out how to work this game devs break this weapon I dont like so I dont have to learn to play to avoid it"

[Vlad Ward]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 28 February 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

especially not ones that can two or three shot nearly any mech in a game where all but one of the maps are claustrophobic rat warrens

I can't count the number of builds that can "two or three shot nearly any Mech in the game". You'd have to try real hard to not be able to do that.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Vlad Ward, on 28 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

I can't count the number of builds that can "two or three shot nearly any Mech in the game". You'd have to try real hard to not be able to do that.

really? name them please lol Id love to see that list. So I know what to buy and what exactly is "cheese" if its what I suspect it is in this game.
Im assuming K2s with gauss or ac20 oh and splatapults
kinda figuring all lrm builds WONT be on this list also

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 28 February 2013 - 05:18 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 28 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

all I read here is "waah its too hard to figure out how to work this game devs break this weapon I dont like so I dont have to learn to play to avoid it"

I like cheese.

[IQwrassler]

3 pages .. no steak ... no cheese ...

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

IQwrassler, on 28 February 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

3 pages .. no steak ... no cheese ...

lotsa wine though

[Ghogiel]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 28 February 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

kinda figuring all lrm builds WONT be on this list also

All LRM boats are cheese builds. FYI Boats are cheesy.

[Devil Fox]

I just want to see a balancing of the ECM light mech variants into the matchmaker... the tourney should've shown them to be the god's amongst mortals they are... but when the ELO matchmaker system happily spam multiple onto the opposing team without any counter on your own, then really I walk away from this game.

Even with matchmaker... it's still the 4man domain whether pugging or not, and since I play during the day it's not a matter of grouping up with anyone. It's a matter of sheer luck to get the pre-made pugstomping team... or get landed with the spreading randoms more often then not...

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Ghogiel, on 28 February 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

All LRM boats are cheese builds. FYI Boats are cheesy.

moar whine please youre entertaining lol
I love how ppl think boats are ebil cheesy buildz when theyre actually TT
Look at the Yeoman, Longbow, etc etc etc

[Teralitha]

I find it strange how MWO has alot of teams, but so few of them play 8 man premades... If this game were truly focused on actual skill and tactical play, wouldnt alot more teams prefer playing 8 man premades because they like a fair, balanced and tactical/strategic match between 2 teams where skill and tactics win the day and not who has the most ECM and cheesebuilds?

There is something wrong with this picture.... Dont you devs see the red flags here?

[Vlad Ward]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 28 February 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

really? name them please lol Id love to see that list. So I know what to buy and what exactly is "cheese" if its what I suspect it is in this game.
Im assuming K2s with gauss or ac20 oh and splatapults
kinda figuring all lrm builds WONT be on this list also

Start with the JR7-D Jenner and work your way up. Anything that can do 30 damage in an Alpha can kill any Mech in the game in 3 shots.

Better, anything that can do a 12 damage Alpha can kill any Mech in the game in 3 shots but we'll be nice and ignore cockpit kills just for you.

[Craftyman]

define skill

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Hell even the ERML cheese ppl complain about was thought of in TT

http://www.sarna.net...28Black_Hawk%29