58 replies to this topic

[Schranz]

Tarman, on 02 March 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

This.

Valid concerns about game issues? We all have them. Nomap bugs. CTD. Weird things with tonnage in the new Elo drops. ECM being way too strong for its resource cost. Duh.

Framing these issues in OMG IMA RUN AWAY BECAUSE THERES BAD STUFFS does not engender discussion, especially on an internet forum. Ragequit posts get sniped because they're ragequit posts; their content is irrelevant as soon as the QQ BAI part is added on.

untill 70 pct of the player base quits ,..SWTOR anyone?

[hammerreborn]

Schranz, on 02 March 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

untill 70 pct of the player base quits ,..SWTOR anyone?

If only these people would quit forumwarrior online too, I wouldn't mind playing with 30k+ dedicated people

[Tarman]

hammerreborn, on 02 March 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Because when people keep beating that dead horse into glue, bring in another horse, kill it, beat that into glue, repeat for 20 more horses, and then using all that glue to combine all the other remaining pieces of horse into one final horse and bludgeon that one to death, people need to just shut up or put up.

I love how there are as many "LRM warrior online/LRM spam threads" as ECM threads at the moment, and it's hilarious.

Not to mention OP says that there haven't been any changes to ECM since its inception, you know, other than the TAG, module and sensor changes at the very least.

Combine all of these and you realize these posters are just bads or full of ****.

This post is win purely for your Ultimate Gluehorse Beating line. If I did quotesigs it would be one.

[Mystere]

I just have two things to say:

Adapt. Overcome. Prevail.

and:

Practice makes perfect.

Edited by Mystere, 02 March 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[Mystere]

hammerreborn, on 02 March 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Because when people keep beating that dead horse into glue, bring in another horse, kill it, beat that into glue, repeat for 20 more horses, and then using all that glue to combine all the other remaining pieces of horse into one final horse and bludgeon that one to death ...

Don't beat it into glue. Horse meat is yummy!

[Tarman]

Mystere, on 02 March 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Don't beat it into glue. Horse meat is yummy!

I have a large quantity of European "beef" lasagnas for you, priced to move!

[Lyteros]

hammerreborn, on 02 March 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Because when people keep beating that dead horse into glue, bring in another horse, kill it, beat that into glue, repeat for 20 more horses, and then using all that glue to combine all the other remaining pieces of horse into one final horse and bludgeon that one to death, people need to just shut up or put up.

I love how there are as many "LRM warrior online/LRM spam threads" as ECM threads at the moment, and it's hilarious.

Not to mention OP says that there haven't been any changes to ECM since its inception, you know, other than the TAG, module and sensor changes at the very least.

Combine all of these and you realize these posters are just bads or full of ****.

You mean it's a better way to repeadetly overpaint the rust on your car every time it brakes trough, until the part finally breaks down and makes you lose control while a 20 ton truck on the opposing lane is passing you?

There are a lot of issues with this game, and there were a lot of good posts describing them and even offering ways to fix them. But the "nono everything is right, dont touch my MWO and talk about bad things" horde appears in every single one, often with mindblowing arguments like "because reasons", the fine logic of "PIG did it so it must be right" or the ultimate "blablah whine blabla" allegation.

You ever wonder WHY there are so many threads on ECM and LRM if it is working properly and everthing is ok? Shouldn't there be a lot of different whiny posts?
[sarcasm]
like: "OMG NERF MG SO UBER!!!!2 DYING IN 10 SECONDS TO 4 MG CICADA :[[["
or how about: "FLAMERS FOTM I GET SHUT DOWN ON SIGHT AND AUTO EXPLODE FROM THEIR HEAT NERF NERF!!!!!222"
[/sarcasm]

Errors and problems are NOT what kills a game, ignorance of those and giving false "all is fine" feedback are what kills it.

OPs tone may not be good, his formulation may not be good, it is wrong to post while enraged - but if things make people repeatedly post in screaming anger, at a rate of several such threads per day over weeks... I think there *might* be something to think about.

Edited by Lyteros, 02 March 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Tarman]

Lyteros, on 02 March 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

You mean it's a better way to repeadetly overpaint the rust on your car every time it brakes trough until the part breaks and makes you lose control while a 20 ton truck on the opposing lane is passing you?

There are a lot of issues with this game, and there were a lot of good posts describing them and even offering ways to fix them. But the "nono everything is right, dont touch my MWO and talk about bad things" horde appears in every single one, often with mindblowing arguments like "because reasons", the fine logic of "PIG did it so it must be right" or the ultimate "blablah whine blabla" allegation.

You ever wonder WHY there are so many threads on ECM and LRM if it is working properly and everthing is ok? Shouldn't there be a lot of different whiny posts?
[sarcasm]
like: "OMG NERF MG SO UBER!!!!2 DYING IN 10 SECONDS TO 4 MG CICADA :[[["
or how about: "FLAMERS FOTM I GET SHUT DOWN ON SIGHT AND AUTO EXPLODE FROM THEIR HEAT NERF NERF!!!!!222"
[/sarcasm]

Errors and problems are NOT what kills a game, ignorance of those and giving false "all is fine" feedback are what kills it.

OPs tone may not be good, his formulation may not be good, it is wrong to post while enraged - but if things make people repeatedly post in screaming anger, at a rate of several such threads per day over weeks... I think there *might* be something to think about.

If there weren't equal numbers of simultaneous threads complaining about ECM AND LRM both being OP, you might almost have a point.

[Lyteros]

Tarman, on 02 March 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

If there weren't equal numbers of simultaneous threads complaining about ECM AND LRM both being OP, you might almost have a point.

You just shot yourself in the knee. You imply they cant be OP at the same time.

[hammerreborn]

Lyteros, on 02 March 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

You mean it's a better way to repeadetly overpaint the rust on your car every time it brakes trough, until the part finally breaks down and makes you lose control while a 20 ton truck on the opposing lane is passing you?

There are a lot of issues with this game, and there were a lot of good posts describing them and even offering ways to fix them. But the "nono everything is right, dont touch my MWO and talk about bad things" horde appears in every single one, often with mindblowing arguments like "because reasons", the fine logic of "PIG did it so it must be right" or the ultimate "blablah whine blabla" allegation.

You ever wonder WHY there are so many threads on ECM and LRM if it is working properly and everthing is ok? Shouldn't there be a lot of different whiny posts?
[sarcasm]
like: "OMG NERF MG SO UBER!!!!2 DYING IN 10 SECONDS TO 4 MG CICADA :[[["
or how about: "FLAMERS FOTM I GET SHUT DOWN ON SIGHT AND AUTO EXPLODE FROM THEIR HEAT NERF NERF!!!!!222"
[/sarcasm]

Errors and problems are NOT what kills a game, ignorance of those and giving false "all is fine" feedback are what kills it.

OPs tone may not be good, his formulation may not be good, it is wrong to post while enraged - but if things make people repeatedly post in screaming anger, at a rate of several such threads per day over weeks... I think there *might* be something to think about.

There are so many threads about ECM because contrary to popular belief, there are a lot of ****** players (half of them actually!) that have no clue how to play or adapt to a changing balanced game. You see I've been here long enough to have seen:

-guass rifles are op I'm quitting
-LRMs are op I'm quitting
-lights are op I'm quitting
-streaks are op I'm quitting
-knockdowns are op I'm quitting

Etc, etc. and yet, it's always the same people. I played a light during the streakcat days, and I play a light against the constant horde of 3Ls.

Let me ask you this, if ECM was OP, why is it only the 3L people complain about? It couldn't possibly be due to 3Ls having a massive advantage against lights due exclusively to streaks, as well as net code and hit box issues (such as the missile damage to legs being confirmed wrong against legs).

But there has never been a "I was killed by a 3M, 3Ms are overpowered!" Thread, or "spider 5d keeps killing me, nerf it now!".

Nope, just complaints after complaints about the 3L, and always saying its the ECM that's overpowered and then go on to state they hit them all the time with ac/20s but it never registers as if ECM is causing the hit box/net code problems

[XIRUSPHERE]

Allowing players to select maps means map specialization, this is bad for the game as it means people will min max to the extreme for the any given map. What it means is longer ques and much more lopsided matches, no thanks. I know people want to be the sorry SOB's that have a single fit for a single situation and do nothing but abuse it but hopefully PGI does not cave to the COD crowd wanting it.

ECM is too effective right now but it will get worked out, I encourage people to continue to abuse the mechanic to get it worked out. Meanwhile the people who are adapting and learning to fight things such as ECM will be utterly slaughtering those who chose to over specialize once state rewind comes into play and any net code fixes that are long overdue.

[BertyBargo]

TL;DR

L2P

/thread

[Lyteros]

hammerreborn, on 02 March 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

There are so many threads about ECM because contrary to popular belief, there are a lot of ****** players (half of them actually!) that have no clue how to play or adapt to a changing balanced game. You see I've been here long enough to have seen:

-guass rifles are op I'm quitting
-LRMs are op I'm quitting
-lights are op I'm quitting
-streaks are op I'm quitting
-knockdowns are op I'm quitting

Etc, etc. and yet, it's always the same people. I played a light during the streakcat days, and I play a light against the constant horde of 3Ls.

Let me ask you this, if ECM was OP, why is it only the 3L people complain about? It couldn't possibly be due to 3Ls having a massive advantage against lights due exclusively to streaks, as well as net code and hit box issues (such as the missile damage to legs being confirmed wrong against legs).

But there has never been a "I was killed by a 3M, 3Ms are overpowered!" Thread, or "spider 5d keeps killing me, nerf it now!".

Nope, just complaints after complaints about the 3L, and always saying its the ECM that's overpowered and then go on to state they hit them all the time with ac/20s but it never registers as if ECM is causing the hit box/net code problems

May have to do with the 3L having ECM which protects it from other streaks and makes their streaks fireable despite beeing in ECM range (counter), giving a massive boost due to less need to aim properly.
Oh and maybe noone whines about other ravens because they dont have ECM?
Or with the atlas... how many RS do you see around? or K? How many D-DC in comparison?
You're twisting viewpoints and reasons and ignoring other angles.

I agree a lot of whining stuff is just ********. But the constant calling of QQ on any post saying "I think X is uber because..." , even if it has valid points, is not better at all.

[Tarman]

Lyteros, on 02 March 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

You just shot yourself in the knee. You imply they cant be OP at the same time.

I'm not playing Skyrim, my knees are fine. I'm implying that people will cry about anything quite apart from the boots on the ground reality, and qq in a dynamically developing environment about something that will be changed is ridiculous. If you can't handle an evolving system, fine. But then just leave quietly. There's no need to announce to the world that you're incapable of dealing with change.

[Ph30nix]

About ECM
I have yet to use a Missle based Loadout yet, but ECM does seem a BIT annoying, from my understanding only current counters are,

Someone running and ECM in Anti ECM mode
PPC hit (lasts 2 seconds i belive? ive also heard this isnt implemented yet?)
Tag

A planned match ECM with those counters seems fine to me, Pug games theres always plenty of PPC's flying around as well BUT the effect from a PPC needs to last long enough to actualy GET a lock and missles to hit, what good is a diruption to the ECM when the second i pops back up you lose your lock and any missles in the air are wasted shots?

Personaly i think the ECM shouldnt be an ALWAYS ACTIVE piece of equipment, and should have some downside to running it. Like lighting up on enemy radar while your not gonna be trackable you should be visible. I mean your activily putting out a continous signal to block incoming locks thats gonna be traceable.

So make it toggleable and while its on you light up like a searchlight to anyone within say 1200 meters? (show up as if your spotted by enemy)

before any ECM lovers rage over that idea it also opens up some interesting tactics like having your force in one area then sending someone with ECM to another area and turning his ECM on, enemy team (especialy pugs) will charge at him thinking more Mech's are there to shoot, They show up, you flank your bait mech turns his ECM off and runs like a spider on crack.
About Map Selection

I see no problem with map seleciton, Min/Maxing ISNT a problem, Hardpoints and other customization limitations would prevent abuse of maps like massing a mech with Beam weapons and only playing ice maps. any benefit you might get isnt going to be so huge as to imbalance things. Frankly people ALREADY do some F"d up things that only work well on certain maps.

Part of the game is your customization, and PLANNING has ALWAYS been a huge part of Battletech/Mechwarrior. If people start abusing a map selection ability too much then figure a way to stop it. Forcing people to play maps they dont like or that suck just makes a game less enjoyable. You want people to play the less desired maps (like night maps) then give them incentive to do so, Like extra EXP earned on those maps or "hazzard pay" etc etc

[hammerreborn]

Lyteros, on 02 March 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

May have to do with the 3L having ECM which protects it from other streaks and makes their streaks fireable despite beeing in ECM range (counter), giving a massive boost due to less need to aim properly.
Oh and maybe noone whines about other ravens because they dont have ECM?
Or with the atlas... how many RS do you see around? or K? How many D-DC in comparison?
You're twisting viewpoints and reasons and ignoring other angles.

I agree a lot of whining stuff is just ********. But the constant calling of QQ on any post saying "I think X is uber because..." , even if it has valid points, is not better at all.

A 2D can use streaks just like the 3L and has ECM, but no one complains about them. And 3Ls certainly don't complain about 2Ds and their three streaks. Same with the ddc, and once again 3Ls aren't complaining.

Only the Jenner D even has missiles that could be streaks but countered by ECM. Spiders and cicadas can't use streaks, so ECm does absolutely nothing to all of their load outs. Yet ECM is complained as the problem. The main missile variant of commandos can use streaks as effectively as a 3L, but still complain about them.

The 3L is the problem, and it's not because of ECM, it's because it has the combination of ECM, streaks, armor, net code, and hit box issues that work to its advantage that no other mech does. There are a million ways the 3L is broken, ECM is the least significant.

And atlas D-DCs were the most used variant even before ECM (because of its missile slots), so that entire argument is moot.

[Schranz]

i aggree 100% having no map selector is like paying entrance fee to an amusement park and then get the rides chosen for you so the cool rides dont get crowded, i#m the customer can i please choose,..it would be different if there was a siege on a planet or sg and the ingame time was bound to that irl... but then i could just choose to fight in another planetary system or at another time,.. i hate river city specially at night and with ecm ,..i have ****** green shaded graphics,..wich if i wanted that id use my old gameboy,..i have to fight close quarters wich can be fun but will either have to do so blind,..or use an ecm mech or pray my team has more,..and if ECM is not op when do you rarely see a team with less or even worse no ECM win against an ECM laden team,..


I bet i just need to learn how to play

[Schranz]

o and its not just the raven, its just that that is the posterchild of ECM abuse,.. i used a centurion in much the same way and if they did not have ECM i could just lag lol them by circling and spitting out ssrm missiles,..ive tried it to see if it was really that op or if it was just me and its fair to say that it takes virtually no skill,.. furthermore an Atlas doesnt abuse netcode as bad as the faster mech's, and combining speed ECM and SSRM in one mech well why would i play another one then,..

So its ECM warrior online now

[Ph30nix]

oh and i would NEVER EVER EVER EVER pick varitions of map with weather effects reducing vision, Such as the blizzard versions of ice maps.

NOT because the reduced visibility but because it makes it look like my video card took a crap... i have settings maxed resolution high normal versions of maps look good, but go to icemap with blizzard going and textures black out in alot of places... at least give me some damn headlights!

[hammerreborn]

Schranz, on 02 March 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

o and its not just the raven, its just that that is the posterchild of ECM abuse,.. i used a centurion in much the same way and if they did not have ECM i could just lag lol them by circling and spitting out ssrm missiles,..ive tried it to see if it was really that op or if it was just me and its fair to say that it takes virtually no skill,.. furthermore an Atlas doesnt abuse netcode as bad as the faster mech's, and combining speed ECM and SSRM in one mech well why would i play another one then,..

So its ECM warrior online now

So you just admitted that having lag speed and ECM and streaks are the issue, which doesn't mean that ECM is overpowered, but the combination causes many issues with the game that I don't think anyone would disagree.

Hell, you even say that ssrms are the broken thing and that the only thing stopping you from spamming it on your cent is ECM. Doesn't that make streaks the issue, and ECM is only making it worse/disguising it?

Now, do you think ravens would be more or less balanced with the time reverse system getting into place?
Do you think they would be more or less balanced if ssrms were reduced to 1.75 damage, and/or no longer 100% accurate?

If the answer was yes to either than ECM isn't the only issue.