75 replies to this topic

[Tarriss Halcyon]

Hahaha, if it has ECM and missile hardpoints, then it matches the most overused ECM mech of all - the 3L. In my opinion, the 3L is also the most over-hyped mech, especially when I took out two in one match, one after the other, with streaks. I was in a Stalker, but the advanced sensors module really makes a difference vs ECM lights. Ravens in general are taller and longer than any other Light mech, and as such they're easier to hit with direct-fire weapons, but that's my two cents worth towards the Raven pilots who believe that their mech is all-powerful and the "best mech in game". Grow up, that title clearly belongs on Vassago Rain's Atlas builds. Or possibly the Trebuchet, for being better than a Raven in all ways bar lack of ECM.

Anyway, I assumed the forward areas were lasers, but when you said missiles, I had a closer look. If they indeed ARE missiles, then it's essentially a larger, faster Jenner. If it has ECM as well, it's broken, because ECM as it is has reached the point of being OP because nobody is willing to use counter-ECM due to their fear of Streaks.

[Nick Drezary]

Well... it is bigger, then raven 3L, has fixed hitboxes and it's only advantage is more armor, which is not any good, because it's much easier to hit, This mech can be good light hunter, but still will be killed with any heavier mech.

[Kassatsu]

Nick Drezary, on 02 March 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

Well... it is bigger, then raven 3L, has fixed hitboxes and it's only advantage is more armor, which is not any good, because it's much easier to hit, This mech can be good light hunter, but still will be killed with any heavier mech.

That "more armor" is at most four total points on the CT and eight total points on each side, hardly even worth mentioning when you consider it's much easier to hit. Unless hero mechs get extra armor for some reason.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Kassatsu, on 02 March 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Because the HBK-4G is pretty competitive with the YLW already. Sure, you can put a fairly large XL in the YLW but is it really worth it to be able to die to losing your left torso (and absolutely no weapons/ammo with it)?

Never seen anyone using an AC20 on a Flame, but I doubt it would be any worse than an Ilya running 3 UAC5s compared to any other non-hero cataphract build.

So what's your point? That the opinion in this thread that a missile equipped Cicada is overpowered because in your opinion Hunchies are competitive with Wangs when it comes to AC20 use? So, giving a Cicada (a medium) some missile points makes it OP how exactly? Which Mech is it beating up? Ravens are lights. That's like arguing that an Atlas is better than a Hunchie when they both carry an AC20. It's apples to oranges really.

Just like I said before, let the Mech arrive and playtest it a little before people start crying about how it's P2W...because to be P2W, it needs to be OP and/or capable of doing something you couldn't do without paying RL cash for it. And that latter point leaves ALOT of room to debate. Right now, the naysayers are splitting hairs based on zero performance metrics and a picture of a Mech.

edit: Kattusa, judging by your other thread, I think we're actually in agreement on the P2W issue here, so I'm not certain why you brought this point above up lol.

Edited by Lukoi, 02 March 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

SuomiWarder, on 02 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Yeah but without a Cicada with ESM and missile hard points, what will we kill Raven 3Ls with?

Nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure.

I think what people are saying here, is that we've heard little about ECM and streaks even with a a pretty large out cry about doing something. It would almost be a slap in the face if they released a Hero mech that had ECM and missles, more over when that mech normally has balistics and lasers.

[Vechs]

If it can do 4 ML and 2 Streaks with ECM, it wouldn't be P2W, because a 4SP would have more direct firepower, and a 3L would be smaller and much harder to hit.

Cicadas are giant boxes on legs, I find them very easy to hit, and their hitboxes aren't totally bonkers like the Raven.

I want the Hero mechs to be good. 30 bucks for a sub-par mech? Why bother?

[Enig]

Vechs, on 02 March 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

If it can do 4 ML and 2 Streaks with ECM, it wouldn't be P2W, because a 4SP would have more direct firepower, and a 3L would be smaller and much harder to hit.

Cicadas are giant boxes on legs, I find them very easy to hit, and their hitboxes aren't totally bonkers like the Raven.

I want the Hero mechs to be good. 30 bucks for a sub-par mech? Why bother?

A hunchback doesn't go 140kph, nor does it have ECM (none of this is confirmed if the Cicada has ECM OR missile hardpoints).

Also, don't exaggerate the pricing, the Cicada will cost roughly 15 dollars, half of your inflated projection.

Edited by Enig, 03 March 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Wingbreaker]

Because there are no medium class mechs with missile hardpoints, clearly.

[Vapor Trail]

If there are two 2-tube hardpoints on the X-5, I'm waiting to see someone put two LRM20's on the thing.

Non-stop missile stream.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Enig, on 02 March 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

I don't feel ECM on a hero mech would be P2W, so long as a base chassis includes that function somewhere (one does), but missile hardpoints are.

We don't know if it has missile slots or not, but this discussion is overarching. I feel that most do not have a problem with hero mechs because they bring something different to the table without bringing something exclusive.

P2W is a very debated topic but I feel a generalization would be: P2W features are defined as giving payed players an advantage that is strictly inaccessible to Free to Play players.

TLDR? No hero mech should offer a feature exclusive to the hero platform. They're a different flavor, not a whole different meal.

Hero Mech : Standard Variants
Dorito Taco : Standard Taco

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 03 March 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Jetfire]

Unless it has more hardpoints than the other Cicada's, ECM or not, this is not P2W. If it got 2 Missile and 6 Energy, that would be a payable imbalance over other Cicada chassis'. Of course even that could be balanced by say reducing it's maximum engine size significantly.

P2W is a straight up advantage over non-paying players that cannot be earned with time. Unique variants will never be P2W just because they are competitive with the best mechs in the game. Raven's would still be a harder target.

[KuruptU4Fun]

You also have to look at it over the broad spectrum of mechs available, not just the Cicada when it comes to the P2W perception of Hero mechs.

Does that particular mech come with something that no other mech in the game has or can use at all?

Currently the Cicada is the ONLY mech WITH ECM that cannot use missiles at all, not the reverse....

[Bl1tzcrank]

PANZERBUNNY, on 02 March 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Stockholders in major tissue corporations need food on their tables. The P2W whining MUST persist.

I must agree, every single mech has it's strength and weakness. It realy doesnt matter what you put on it, it's a cicada and it's not OP or imba. Hero mechs should be different, that's why they're hero mechs.

[FupDup]

Existing Cicada variants' hardpoint configurations:

2A: 6 energy, 1 module
2B: 5 energy, 2 modules
3C: 1 energy, 4 ballistics, 2 modules
3M: 4 energy, 1 ballistic, 2 modules, ECM

Speculated X-5: 4 energy, 2 missiles, 1-2 modules, ? ECM (very unlikely)


Using that criteria, it's not a straight upgrade over the default Cicadas. It has some additional options in the form of missiles, but can't boat as many lasers/ballistics as other variants (disadvantage). It is different but not 100% better. It is therefore not P2W.


If simply having missiles and/or ECM qualify a mech as OP to most people, I think the issue here is with missiles and ECM instead of the mech in question.

Edited by FupDup, 03 March 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

Enig, on 02 March 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

I don't feel ECM on a hero mech would be P2W, so long as a base chassis includes that function somewhere (one does), but missile hardpoints are.

We don't know if it has missile slots or not, but this discussion is overarching. I feel that most do not have a problem with hero mechs because they bring something different to the table without bringing something exclusive.

P2W is a very debated topic but I feel a generalization would be: P2W features are defined as giving payed players an advantage that is strictly inaccessible to Free to Play players.


In this case, IF the Cicada X-5 has missile hardpoints while no other variant has missile hardpoints, then that would indeed fall into P2W in my eyes.

This is my opinion and I don't think everyone should believe it but I wanted to voice my stance on the subject.


TLDR? No hero mech should offer a feature exclusive to the hero platform. They're a different flavor, not a whole different meal.

Hero Mech : Standard Variants
Dorito Taco : Standard Taco

i see your point and agree to some extent but if this was the case wouldn't the Yen-Lo be considered p2w at this point? its the only centurion to mount AC20 or dual UAC5's compared to the other 3 that are avalible to free players

[Earthtalker]

Kodiak Jorgensson, on 03 March 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

i see your point and agree to some extent but if this was the case wouldn't the Yen-Lo be considered p2w at this point? its the only centurion to mount AC20 or dual UAC5's compared to the other 3 that are avalible to free players

Sort of. The YLW is borderline P2W. The reason being that while it does everything else the other Centurions do, it has an advantage of being able to mount/carry something the others cannot. In the YLW instance, it's just a bigger AC. However, if the Hero Bug does come with the speculated missle points then it would fall readily in the P2W bracket as it can do something no other Bug could do......and that's mount missles.

[Yokaiko]

Earthtalker, on 03 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Sort of. The YLW is borderline P2W. The reason being that while it does everything else the other Centurions do, it has an advantage of being able to mount/carry something the others cannot. In the YLW instance, it's just a bigger AC. However, if the Hero Bug does come with the speculated missle points then it would fall readily in the P2W bracket as it can do something no other Bug could do......and that's mount missles.

lol cognitive dissonance again

[Earthtalker]

Yokaiko, on 03 March 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

lol cognitive dissonance again

I know. ;_; But in defence of my stupidity, if something can do something else the other somethings cannot, that is an advantage. If the only way to access that advantage is by spending real money when there is no way to earn it in game, then it is P2W. And P2W is bad for business in the long term.

[Yokaiko]

Earthtalker, on 03 March 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

I know. ;_; But in defence of my stupidity, if something can do something else the other somethings cannot, that is an advantage. If the only way to access that advantage is by spending real money when there is no way to earn it in game, then it is P2W. And P2W is bad for business in the long term.

No cent can mount two UAC5s or an AC20
No other phract can mount three UAC 5s
No Dragon except flam has four energy on the arm or can mount an AC20
Pretty Baby is the only mech in the game that can mount a 400xl

.....need I go on?


...and its not pay t win, there is no cash only ammo or whatnot.

Edited by Yokaiko, 03 March 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Exclusivity alone does not make Pay-To-Win. I am not saying the Cicada couldn'T become P2W. If there is an exclusive hard point limitation that is particularly advantageous on the chassis that no other chassis (neither lighter or harder) could achieve, then we would probably have a P2W case.