46 replies to this topic

[MiG77]

Jez, on 03 March 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

As a brawler, the D is superior over the DDC. Too many people undervalue the 2 med energy slots in the center torso and don't recognize the increased survivability in the event of a destroyed torso.

While an SRM 6 can put down 15 pts of damage, what it can't do is provide concentrated damage onto a singular spot which is invaluable against a hostile mech that has its internals exposed.

Exactly this. My Brawler Atlas D (2xLL, 2xML, AC20, 2xSRM6 ) does only 5 point less Alpha damage to my Brawler DDC (2xLL, AC20,3xSRM6) but it does it more focused. Which meas I usually kill opponents faster in my Atlas D.

Only reason why DDC is used more is ECM.

[Hawks]

When we had the Hero challenge the other week, I almost exclusively used my Founders Atlas. I went toe-to-toe with more than a few DDCs, and I gutted every single one.

[Absurd]

Sorry, I couldnt resist:

[Elizander]

I like my D. It's a bit more pinpoint than the D-DC thanks to the extra lasers. That can be 10-12 damage in one spot as opposed to 15 damage scattered.

The trade is 2 energy for 1 missile. 1 SRM6 does 15 with potential to spread, 2 Medium Pulse Lasers does 12 pinpoint. I rarely used guided weaponry so the ECM part isn't much of a factor.

[Jestun]

That's like asking why the 3L is the most popular Raven.

We all know the answer, even those who claim ECM is balanced (lol...)

[Broad5ide]

Jestun, on 03 March 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

That's like asking why the 3L is the most popular Raven.

We all know the answer, even those who claim ECM is balanced (lol...)

uhhh... the problem with the ravens is that the other variants have bad engine ratings. Plenty of jenner pilots manage without ecm.

[Jestun]

Broad5ide, on 03 March 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

uhhh... the problem with the ravens is that the other variants have bad engine ratings. Plenty of jenner pilots manage without ecm.

No, that's not the reason the 3L is the most used.

Edited by Jestun, 03 March 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[StalaggtIKE]

I've taken out light mechs with one direct hit of SRM6. The same cannot be said with 2mlasers or 1 llaser. Because of this, my preference is the one with extra missile hardpoints, the D-DC.

The extra laser hardpoints are best used for a support role, where as an Atlas best serves his team as a brawler, absorbing damage. Leave the support role for the Awesome or Stalker.

Finally ECM is invaluable for your whole team. Sure the enemy may see you, but what of your smaller, equally deadly teammates? Being able to sneak around your team can greatly disrupt your enemy's plans.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 03 March 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[The Warspite]

I have both, and an RS.. and actually, the RS is my favorite but that's not what this thread is about. Once you get into close quarters, I don't notice too much of a difference between the D and D-DC.

The D with endo and DHS. DPS: 23, HE: 1.23, Alpha: 70
2 x LPL
1 x AC/20 (w/ 5 tons)
2 x SRM6 (w/ 2 tons and artemis)
Std 320
AMS

I could fit 4 x MPL and up the dps to 25 but that leaves me with 7 tons of free weight and I just hate doing that...

The D-DC with DHS. DPS: 24.3, HE: 1.34, Alpha: 77
2 x MPL
1 x AC/20 (w/ 5 tons)
3 x SRM6 (w/ 5 tons and artemis)
Std 300
ECM

So.... just looking at that and with the ECM, I'd have to say the D-DC is the better of the two with the current fits but they both play really well. When I take the D, I look for a D-DC to escort.

Edited by The Warspite, 03 March 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

With ECM, you don't need to worry about LRMs until the enemy really works hard to enable them via TAG and/or its own ECM units. That means by default, you're a lot more safe on the battlefield. It will also make the job of snipers more difficult, as they will not see you as early, and cannot target you to see where (if any) weakened spots are. (Though be aware, most players will often use Thermal Vision - you're not invisible here! But if you stay close to allies or enemies, the enemy will get trouble identifying you out of the targets when everyone is weaving around.)

SRMs belong to the most weight/damage efficient weapons in the game (especially if you take into account ammo and heat sink requirements). Yes, they are short range (and don't let the max range fuel - you won't hit much at 270m), but when you use them up close, they hit extremely hard. Combined with a decent ballistic weapon and maybe 2 medium lasers, you'll be extremely deadly at close range.

[Reishiko]

With the changes to PPCs that now disrupt ECM, I find the D-DC variant not as good. The reason being its a huge target and stupid easy to keep PPC fire on to disrupt that ECM. Lets face it, in LOS in the heat of combat, ECM does you really nothing. With solid PPC fire, that ECM does you no good; and when you are not in LOS, you can use terrain to avoid missiles.

[Phoenix Gray]

Stick a PPC or ERPPC on your mech under the new ECM rules and ECM stops being a problem. Just pop the D-DC with it once in a while and short the little ****** out, then blaze away with everything else.

Doesn't work as easily with the smaller ECM boats but if you hit them with a particle charge their ECM goes down too. So enjoy your D.

[ICEFANG13]

Ok, so ECM has no effect on being shot at by PPCs, at all. Both Atlas will be shot at by the PPCs, and both will take damage, the D-DC will have wasted 1.5 tons and 2 slots at this point (le gasp). Now you are comparing weapon systems. Which mech would be more likely to take down a mech with a PPC focus? 1A/C-20+3SRM-6+2ML or 1A/C-20+2SRM-6+4ML. Correct answer? Neither, you will be dead long before you can effectively kill that mech. ECM would help you avoid detection when you fall back.

People overall prefer the D-DC because it has ECM, if the D had ECM too, or neither, then it would be a comparison. PPCs countering ECM is like saying PPCs counter armor. If someone brings a PPC, unless its a PPC+SSRM mech, they don't bring it to counter ECM, they bring it to shoot at mechs.

[Heinreich]

In my experience my DDC kills faster at close brawl ranges than my D. Artemis helps close up the srm6x3 groupings and can be pretty deadly at close (200m or less) range. At even closer ranges (around 100m and less) you're practically assured that a very large majority of the missiles would land at the section you're aiming at. With my DDC i just keep pumping the srms + ac/20 when we're that close and I dont touch the beams. I can keep it up longer than using my energy weaps at that range.

The biggest drawback with this setup tho is range, which the energy slots give you.

[Sasha Volkova]

Alot of people have already said this but I just cant help myself :b

D-DC > D
Because of ECM.

:b

Now excuse me while I go back into my bubble of [redacted]ness that I share with the devs, in which we tell each other that ECM is totally balanced atm and in no way defines what models of a frame is considered the best because surely any atlas frame is just as competetive as the D-DC is

[Sasha Volkova]

Phoenix Gray, on 03 March 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Stick a PPC or ERPPC on your mech under the new ECM rules and ECM stops being a problem. Just pop the D-DC with it once in a while and short the little ****** out, then blaze away with everything else.

Doesn't work as easily with the smaller ECM boats but if you hit them with a particle charge their ECM goes down too. So enjoy your D.

Because in a group or competetive play there is ONLY one ECM on each side at any given time.
*Nods*

- If you are talking about the lone wolf pug playstyle, then by all means feel free to play a D, just dont QQ when a group of 4 and some teamplay demolishes it :b

////Also this is a team game so if anyone expects a team to only deploy one ECM then they are either very gullible or just not realizing how strong ECM is atm :b

[Vulpesveritas]

Garfuncle, on 03 March 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

Because ECM on an Assault practically gives you invulnerability to indirect LRMs, radar cloak, and enemy radar jamming all for the low low low low low price of 1.5 tons which is basically adding a feather on your Atlas. Why PGI EVER thought ECM on Atlas was anything but pants-on-head crazy I will never understand.

This and then some.

[StalaggtIKE]

Reishiko, on 03 March 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

With the changes to PPCs that now disrupt ECM, I find the D-DC variant not as good. The reason being its a huge target and stupid easy to keep PPC fire on to disrupt that ECM. Lets face it, in LOS in the heat of combat, ECM does you really nothing. With solid PPC fire, that ECM does you no good; and when you are not in LOS, you can use terrain to avoid missiles.

Fact is, you have to work to eliminate his ECM, just for 4 seconds, mind you. And to do so, you need direct los. So now you are vulnerable to being spotted, LRM, ballistics and/or any weapon from his whole team that now see you lit up. Yeah PPCs work great on your bad D-DC players, but anyone worth his weight in salt, stays near another ECM mech, does not venture in the open too long and can fire back at you once you poke your head out to snipe. The fact is ECM is a light, passive tool that requires no input from the user. Eliminating it momentarily does not make the D-DC all of a sudden useless.

Why is this even a discussion? Compared to the D it is only missing 2 energy slots in CT, with the gain of ECM and an extra missile slot. As someone posted earlier, missiles are the most weight/damage efficient weapons in the game. You can prefer the D to the D-DC, however the choice is should be obvious. Even in lore the D-DC was an upgrade to the D; it is supposed to be better.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 03 March 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[Phoenix Gray]

ICEFANG13, on 03 March 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Ok, so ECM has no effect on being shot at by PPCs, at all. Both Atlas will be shot at by the PPCs, and both will take damage, the D-DC will have wasted 1.5 tons and 2 slots at this point (le gasp). Now you are comparing weapon systems. Which mech would be more likely to take down a mech with a PPC focus? 1A/C-20+3SRM-6+2ML or 1A/C-20+2SRM-6+4ML. Correct answer? Neither, you will be dead long before you can effectively kill that mech. ECM would help you avoid detection when you fall back.

People overall prefer the D-DC because it has ECM, if the D had ECM too, or neither, then it would be a comparison. PPCs countering ECM is like saying PPCs counter armor. If someone brings a PPC, unless its a PPC+SSRM mech, they don't bring it to counter ECM, they bring it to shoot at mechs.

Under the new rules, PPC's short out ECM for four-odd seconds. Keep hitting the ECM mech with PPC and you (and your friends) can taget him with everything else.

[StalaggtIKE]

Phoenix Gray, on 03 March 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

Under the new rules, PPC's short out ECM for four-odd seconds. Keep hitting the ECM mech with PPC and you (and your friends) can taget him with everything else.

You missed the point completely. He even states that. I suggest a re-read.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 03 March 2013 - 05:51 PM.