102 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 02 March 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Atlas DDC.

I see lots of streaks on Stalkers and Trebuchets these days as well

[The Cheese]

Monky, on 02 March 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

I'm starting to think 'streaks are garaunteed to hit' is something from tabletop that needs to go the way of the dinosaur. replace it with 'streaks are highly likely to hit' and you're good.

That's how they were after they were after they were fixed so that they wouldn't all go right for the CT, remember?

There were many tears.

[Pinkydinky]

Lights are usually good for countering an atlas but once you put streaks in the atlas it gets a lot more versatility.

I use 3x SSRM2 in my D-DC.

And yeah, I also think its a bit weird to have someone all the way to my extreme right and fire off streaks from my left torso which then fly through my mech to him.

I think streaks need to fly out straight for a bit before initiating a hard turn at a preset speed. Meaning that if the turn is too extreme, the missiles won't make it and just fly past the target

[Suki]

The Cheese, on 02 March 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

That's how they were after they were after they were fixed so that they wouldn't all go right for the CT, remember?

There were many tears.

yep, there were really many tears when all streakcatas become splatones, the tears are still here.

[Ryvucz]

It is rather annoying when a streaker hits me when his/her launcher isn't even facing me.

[MoonUnitBeta]

The Cheese, on 02 March 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

That's how they were after they were after they were fixed so that they wouldn't all go right for the CT, remember?

There were many tears.

I'm with the 100% hit. But I think there ought to be min range and turning radius before they can come out of the launchers perpendicular to the mech, and apparently as some have said in the thread to completely 180 and shoot backwards. I hardly think that should be the case at all. Never should they go 180 degrees, unless doing so can be done within the turning restrictions of the missile. So, if the target is easily within those restrictions, I'm fine with it hitting all the time. The user has to be a little more careful with piloting the mech and keeping the target within sights, rather than just doing a flyby and hitting 'GO' before they lose lock and already have a head start on running away.

[ChrisOrange]

PGI does not want you curving your streaks around that building.

Think about It some more and it would actually be terrible in this game as in completely imbalancing streak ravens to ridiculous levels... "so I can't shoot you at all AND you get to kite me around that building infinitely or maybe worse poptart?" Dream on. MAYBE allow it to curve/shoot if you PERSONALLY have line of sight. Even then it sucks...just don't even go there.

It's POSSIBLE that this will add to the skill of using streaks but these developers have a problem with allowing players to display individual skill. So no we won't be seeing it but was a good try.

[Gaan Cathal]

Streaks need some serious work, frankly. Bear in mind whatever is done to them needs to be scalable since we will have SSRM4/6 at some point.

Look at it this way:

Artemis IV: SRM upgrade, 1 Ton + 1 Crit/ Launcher, Tightens grouping
Streak: SRM upgrade, 0.5 Tons + 0 Crits/ 2 Missiles, Makes missiles homing

So for a SRM2, ArtIV is worse, and weighs more. For an SRM4, ArtIV is worse and weighs the same. For an SRM6, ArtIV is worse and finally weighs less - by a half ton, and still takes a crit slot. It's also worth noting that as a launcher gets more missiles, the spread dynamics mean the homing advantage is worth more.

If things go as is, I would need to find one whole half ton (that's a few points of armour on some redundant section) to upgrade the SRM6 on my 3L to an SSRM6 and not have to line up my shots for that 15 damage volley. Currently there's an argument for taking it over the SSRM2x2, in that you trade the lazymode not-needing-to-aim-ever for an extra 5 damage and not needing to reach all the way over to the 'J' key if there's another ECM mech nearby and it's 'only' an extra ton. (Think about that, actually. I pay a ton to do 15 damage I have to aim compared with 10 I don't.) For an extra half ton there would be no excuse at all for not upgrading to SSRM.

Once larger SSRM launchers come in, concentrated SSRM fire will entirely dictate engagements under 270m. The limiting factor of massed SRM fire at the moment is the need to aim and account for spread mechanics. SSRM will negate that, allowing full DPS to be maintained 100% of the time once in firing range.

TL:DR - SSRM are manifestly superior to SRM/SRM+ArtIV for less-through-to-negligibly-more tonnage investment.

[DegeneratePervert]

Eh, just make AMS a lot more reactive to things like this. Shouldn't be too hard to shoot down 2 little missiles.

[ChrisOrange]

Gaan Cathal, on 03 March 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Streaks need some serious work, frankly. Bear in mind whatever is done to them needs to be scalable since we will have SSRM4/6 at some point.

Yes they might need work but this curving thing is not the way to do it...see my above reply.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 03 March 2013 - 01:13 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

ChrisOrange, on 03 March 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

[/size]

Yes they might need work but this curving thing is not the way to do it...see my above reply.

I don't think anyone in this thread has yet advocated the 'SSRMs should follow the reticule' idea yet, though I have seen it elsewhere and yes, I agree it's not the way to go. Most people here are advocating making them less agile (i.e. more like LRMs in behaviour), and requiring a short dumb-fire launch period to avoid them firing out the exhaust pipe. While I agree those things should happen, I don't think they're significant enough to deal with future Streak launcher models.

[ChrisOrange]

Gaan Cathal, on 03 March 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

I don't think anyone in this thread has yet advocated the 'SSRMs should follow the reticule' idea yet, though I have seen it elsewhere and yes, I agree it's not the way to go. Most people here are advocating making them less agile (i.e. more like LRMs in behaviour), and requiring a short dumb-fire launch period to avoid them firing out the exhaust pipe. While I agree those things should happen, I don't think they're significant enough to deal with future Streak launcher models.

Whoa lots of weird contradictions in here. I don't REALLY get what you are saying so maybe be more specific. You're saying they dumbfire for a period right? SO it should fire straight at reticule for a period of time and THEN track the enemy? That's curving streaks around a building and is the problem I have with the idea.

If the length of the dumb fire is literally the length of the missile itself...then you wouldn't even notice the change...they would still go thru your own mech plenty of times. Dumbfire lasting any longer than that and you are curving streaks around a building.


I didn't say anything about following the reticule...don't think MWO is ready for that either.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 03 March 2013 - 01:37 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

ChrisOrange, on 03 March 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Whoa lots of weird contradictions in here. I don't REALLY get what you are saying so maybe be more specific. You're saying they dumbfire for a period right? SO it should fire straight at reticule for a period of time and THEN track the enemy? That's curving streaks around a building and is the problem I have with the idea.

If the length of the dumb fire is literally the length of the missile itself...then you wouldn't even notice the change...they would still go thru your own mech plenty of times. Dumbfire lasting any longer than that and you are curving streaks around a building.


I didn't say anything about following the reticule...don't think MWO is ready for that either.

Ah, my misunderstanding - the 'follow the reticule' idea has been floated a few times in similar threads and I thought you were referencing that.

As for the dumbfire period, I don't think what you're concerned about would be a huge problem if the tracking code for SSRMs functions like that for LRMs - certainly the latter don't follow the target, if you fired at someone who turned behined a building, the SSRMs would simply dumbfire for x distance and then fly -at- the mech, and plow into the building they're behined. Obviously the dumbfire distance does need to be short, just enough to clear the firing mech, and what you describe would be a technical possibility if the firing mech was closer to the corner of the building than the dumbfire distance, but with a slower turning circle I'd expect them to hit another obstacle before the target mech in dense terrain.

[ChrisOrange]

No the missiles would be able to turn around the corner if you locked on...flicked aim toward open space and fire. Your dumbfire portion hits no walls and your streaks "kick in" which allows it to move toward the enemy mech. So your friend gets a target and now on your streak boat you can just sit behind a corner and put guaranteed damage on with no risk and the enemy can't because they don't have streaks? Doesn't work well for this game.

I liked the old mech games and streaks let you do this in old mech games. The problem is it doesn't work well for THIS game and you guys don't know what you're asking for. (or worse you DO know and you just don't want to admit it.) Just: no.

If you let the missiles only dumbfire for a VERY small period of time (few FRAMES) then maybe it would help the problem without allowing people to curve missiles.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 03 March 2013 - 02:13 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

I think we could tame Streaks by giving them a 10-30m "activation" time before they actually lock on to the target and zap them.

So when people do a face rush with all the moving andjumping the missiles don't have enough time to even lock on the target and are fired as normal srms.

Is that even possible?

ANYTHINGS POSSIBLE!

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 03 March 2013 - 02:08 AM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

ChrisOrange, on 03 March 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

PGI does not want you curving your streaks around that building.

Think about It some more and it would actually be terrible in this game as in completely imbalancing streak ravens to ridiculous levels... "so I can't shoot you at all AND you get to kite me around that building infinitely or maybe worse poptart?" Dream on. MAYBE allow it to curve/shoot if you PERSONALLY have line of sight. Even then it sucks...just don't even go there.

It's POSSIBLE that this will add to the skill of using streaks but these developers have a problem with allowing players to display individual skill. So no we won't be seeing it but was a good try.

Whoa. I didn't say anything about streaks curving around buildings and terrain tracking to avoid it colliding with anything but the target. That's just nasty stuff. lol. that be worse than 90 degree missile launchers.

Or do you mean that if you have streaks, you can only lock on to a target only when you have your own LOS, and is not being targeted by someone else?

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 03 March 2013 - 02:22 AM.

[ChrisOrange]

MoonUnitBeta, on 03 March 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Whoa. I didn't say anything about streaks curving around buildings and terrain tracking to avoid it colliding with anything but the target. That's just nasty stuff. lol. that be worse than 90 degree missile launchers

I just think some people in the thread were getting the wrong idea and I wanted to squash that.

Current range on streaks is 270 right? If it goes something like 50-100m dumbfire and THEN starts tracking then we have a problem. If it goes for just a few FRAMES of dumbfire where it "looks better," then sure let's have it.

[Gaan Cathal]

ChrisOrange, on 03 March 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

Current range on streaks is 270 right? If it goes something like 50-100m dumbfire and THEN starts tracking then we have a problem. If it goes for just a few FRAMES of dumbfire where it "looks better," then sure let's have it.

My estimation is that 10-15m would probably suffice. Most of the problem is actually how long pre-launch lock remains when you're not looking anywhere near the target.

[ChrisOrange]

10-15m might work it's hard to say for sure. As long as I can't stand at the corner and never take damage while putting streaks on an enemy we're good. Maybe it can JUST be the animation but in reality the streaks are still moving straight.

I'm just too afraid for the potential of abuse...also yes moon I was talking about 90 degree missiles we don't want them lol.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 03 March 2013 - 02:38 AM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Streak lock, fire, lose lock, require lock, fire, lose lock. This would help alot. Also there is the fact they can do 180 degree turn too. So yeah make them come out for some distance before they track. Or even better make the firing mech keep firing target on mech to "guide" the missles. Lose the mech, lose the lock.