497 replies to this topic

[Noobzorz]

SteelWarrior, on 05 March 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

lol. thats right. dont touch the details of my post, just throw a immaturity jab. worth the read.

What details? You literally spouted vitriol and rage and then called other people stupid, even with this tower of evidence staring you in the face that you manifestly refuse to acknowledge. You are experiencing the common but inexplicable tendency of people on internet forums to go against the popular opinion because. . . well, I'm not sure why, even though it is obviously against your own interest. It's the internet equivalent of stockholm syndrome, and I just don't understand it.

I mean, you said something about spending $5,000 on a rid to play games at a tournament (absolutely, categorically untrue, by the by; professional games of StarCraft II are played at low settings that could run above 80 frames per second on machines that weren't top of the line four years ago) as though that had any relevance. You are meandering through such amazingly spurious and nonsensical lines of argument that I am simultaneously impressed and sad for the future of humanity that you had the nerve to call anyone else stupid.

[Protection]

Mr Mantis, on 05 March 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

I wonder if they will have coolant flush make you generate more heat once used. That would put it directly in line with most the other modules (useless).

Try to hold in your rage until they launch it.

But then the system is established. Mechwarrior: Online becomes a game where paying customers get to buy improved items, paid advantages, that free players are not allowed to use. That becomes a core part of the game.

The time to stop it is now, before it has any chance of becoming the status quo.

[Tor6]

They've already explained what it'll do, and it doesn't involve making you run hotter afterward. Even if it did, it'd need to be a HUGE penalty to keep it from being fantastically useful as a 'no **** YOU' button to get in one last alpha right before you die. Which would still give a distinct advantage to those that have it rather than not.

Also if they planned to make it nice and balanced and thus have downsides they would not have made it a consumable. Because no one would deal with the annoyance and cost of that if it didn't offer a sizable advantage.

Edited by Tor6, 05 March 2013 - 02:34 AM.

[Blackfang]

I'm not sure I understand here, why should a player who's put no money into the game (a "free player") expect to get everything there way and just handed over freely to them? Fancy cockpit art and paint schemes will only take you so far before having to move onto other objects to keep your paying customers paying, i.e. turnover a profit... For those of you whining your hearts out, please tell me how you would do it all differently? Make Cbill and MC versions exactly the same, where would be the incentive to spend money, which would essentially kill their cashflow which would ultimately halt the game.

[Noobzorz]

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Learn to math.

It's the same percentage, NOT the same value.
Sequential application means that from say 100 heat the MC mod drops you from 100 to 65.

For the c-bill mods go from 100-80-72 or 100-90-67.5

.....and the more heatsinks you have the BIGGER the advantage the MC modules afford.

It look equal because many people .....like you.....don't think through the absolute values.

I thought about this too, and I'm not sure about that yet. We haven't been given any information as to whether the 35% is applied to your max or your total, and I'm inclined to suspect the former since otherwise they'd have lied to us, which would be AMAZINGLY shady.

Blackfang, on 05 March 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

I'm not sure I understand here, why should a player who's put no money into the game (a "free player") expect to get everything there way and just handed over freely to them? Fancy cockpit art and paint schemes will only take you so far before having to move onto other objects to keep your paying customers paying, i.e. turnover a profit... For those of you whining your hearts out, please tell me how you would do it all differently? Make Cbill and MC versions exactly the same, where would be the incentive to spend money, which would essentially kill their cashflow which would ultimately halt the game.

Manifestly not correct.

See: League of Legends. DotA 2. TF2. Every Korean F2P game since 2008.

What they are proposing actually kills games, rather than maintaining the income stream.

And since we're talking about a competitive game environment, consumables really have no business being here.

Edited by Noobzorz, 05 March 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[SteelWarrior]

Noobzorz, on 05 March 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

What details? You literally spouted vitriol and rage and then called other people stupid, even with this tower of evidence staring you in the face that you manifestly refuse to acknowledge. You are experiencing the common but inexplicable tendency of people on internet forums to go against the popular opinion because. . . well, I'm not sure why, even though it is obviously against your own interest. It's the internet equivalent of stockholm syndrome, and I just don't understand it.

I mean, you said something about spending $5,000 on a rid to play games at a tournament (absolutely, categorically untrue, by the by; professional games of StarCraft II are played at low settings that could run above 80 frames per second on machines that weren't top of the line four years ago) as though that had any relevance. You are meandering through such amazingly spurious and nonsensical lines of argument that I am simultaneously impressed and sad for the future of humanity that you had the nerve to call anyone else stupid.

LOLOLOLOL YOUR COMPARING SC2 WITH MWO YOU DAMNED FOOL!

What part of equipment values is play to win is missing your tiny little brain. YOUR TELLING ME THAT SOMEONE USING A GAMING RIG WITH ALL THE NEWEST TECH AND THE FASTEST LAND LINE INTERNET DOES NOT HAVE A GAMING ADVANTAGE OVER SOMEONE WITH LOWER QUALITY SPECS/INTERNET.

HOLY **** MAN GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE!

WHAT part of that is different then a in game mechanic. PAY to win exsists in EVERYTHING.

Id almost think you were a troll if i wasnt so convinced your just dumb.

[Tor6]

Blackfang, on 05 March 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

I'm not sure I understand here, why should a player who's put no money into the game (a "free player") expect to get everything there way and just handed over freely to them? Fancy cockpit art and paint schemes will only take you so far before having to move onto other objects to keep your paying customers paying, i.e. turnover a profit... For those of you whining your hearts out, please tell me how you would do it all differently? Make Cbill and MC versions exactly the same, where would be the incentive to spend money, which would essentially kill their cashflow which would ultimately halt the game.

If people can pay and get a distinct advantage over people who do not pay, then people who don't have the money to pay or can't afford to drop money every round to be competitive will simply not play. Free to play games rely on providing everyone a chance to play (because people playing the game and interacting with eachother is content that the devs don't need to make) and some of them paying. This game NEEDS free players to succeed, because the market for paying mech games like this isn't enormous. However when you make it so that free players are just fodder for paying players, or even just feel that they are seen that way, they'll leave in droves.

Also if this game ever has a chance in hell of being seen as competitive everyone has to be on a fair and level playing field. Period.

[Shadowsword8]

I think you all should take a deep breath and wait (is one day too long?) before you comment on this. Wait for hard numbers beofre you scream about P2W.


On a side note, I have little sympathy for those who'd play this game for dozens/hundreds of hours, and would still refuse to support PGI, because parting with 10$ is still too much for them. There's like customers in a wallmart who would see a plate with free food samples and eat them all. It may be because of them that PGI would decide they need a bit of P2W to stay afloat.

[Terran123rd]

I honestly don't see the problem here.

[Vaenson]

just one thing to the folks who blaming the free players.....u all the time defend the p2w concept by arguing that the devs need more money....but there allrdy alot of things that benefit the player who spend money on that...the most easy example is the assault class....
take the awesome chassis
3 chassis for unlock elite ~24.000.000 c-bills ...
bring them all to playable level + 3 * 3.000.000
+ 390xl engine somewaht about 5- 6.000.000 c-bills

this is @ max 40.000.000 c-bills for one chassis in assault class to max out...
believe it or not but for a free player this is close to not archivable without getting ill when paying all the time for one maybe good assault mech....because of that ill never try to get a master aws 9m....its just to time consuming.....

so in my opinion there allrdy alot of stuff implemented that let the players choose the realmoney way over disproportional grind..... so why they need to create items that only affordable for 10% of the playerbase oO...

I like the mechwarrior concept alot since MW2...but ill never like free 2 play games....i would easy spend 50 bugs for this game as finished product and maybe also pay dlc for new mechs and stuff.....but paying 300 dolars for a game that only provides random mm and some mech chassis....lol

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Sorry for not checking each page for it (kind of time pressed right now), but can we use both T3 Coolant + T3 Arty or Air strike, or we don't know that yet?

[zenlike]

Blackfang, on 05 March 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

I'm not sure I understand here, why should a player who's put no money into the game (a "free player") expect to get everything there way and just handed over freely to them? Fancy cockpit art and paint schemes will only take you so far before having to move onto other objects to keep your paying customers paying, i.e. turnover a profit... For those of you whining your hearts out, please tell me how you would do it all differently? Make Cbill and MC versions exactly the same, where would be the incentive to spend money, which would essentially kill their cashflow which would ultimately halt the game.

I would rather pay a subscription than have an MC arms race and I doubt there are many on my side of the argument who would disagree.

[Blackfang]

Tor6, on 05 March 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

If people can pay and get a distinct advantage over people who do not pay, then people who don't have the money to pay or can't afford to drop money every round to be competitive will simply not play. Free to play games rely on providing everyone a chance to play (because people playing the game and interacting with eachother is content that the devs don't need to make) and some of them paying. This game NEEDS free players to succeed, because the market for paying mech games like this isn't enormous. However when you make it so that free players are just fodder for paying players, or even just feel that they are seen that way, they'll leave in droves.

Also if this game ever has a chance in hell of being seen as competitive everyone has to be on a fair and level playing field. Period.

Please explain to me how a FREE player keeps this game running when you don't fund any of the development, you talk about the market for mech games, but there is no market if your not paying anything??

Edited by Blackfang, 05 March 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[van Uber]

Noobzorz, on 04 March 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

I'm sorry, if you're suggesting that WoT is very competitive for people who don't spend money, then you have to be insane. World of Tanks is the prototypical F2P game gone mad, and is proof positive of why PGI can't introduce this into MWO.

I disagree, it is completely possible to stay competitive without spending a dime in WoT, even more so these days when "Gold ammo" can be purchased with regular credits. But even before then pugging up to tier 10 was possible to succeed in, free of charge.

And if you by "game gone mad" mean over 40 million players, why would MWO not introduce proven revenue streams?

Edited by van Uber, 05 March 2013 - 12:56 AM.

[Tor6]

Ghost Rider LSOV, on 05 March 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

Sorry for not checking each page for it (kind of time pressed right now), but can we use both T3 Coolant + T3 Arty or Air strike, or we don't know that yet?

That's the assumption, and there's been nothing to indicate otherwise. No reason I can think of why that wouldn't be the case other than as a tacit acknowledgment that this is a pay to win cashgrab.

[Ihasa]

Tor6, on 05 March 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

If people can pay and get a distinct advantage over people who do not pay, then people who don't have the money to pay or can't afford to drop money every round to be competitive will simply not play. Free to play games rely on providing everyone a chance to play (because people playing the game and interacting with eachother is content that the devs don't need to make) and some of them paying. This game NEEDS free players to succeed, because the market for paying mech games like this isn't enormous. However when you make it so that free players are just fodder for paying players, or even just feel that they are seen that way, they'll leave in droves.

Also if this game ever has a chance in hell of being seen as competitive everyone has to be on a fair and level playing field. Period.

And the fact that this is a pvp-only game, makes equalizing the two all the more important.

Now if they had something like, the singular Tier 3 console did 5 or 7 or maybe even 10% less cooling than the 2 combined MC consoles, it would be much less pay to win because here you have a trade off to make. do you want better cooling using more slots, or slightly less cooling using only 1 slot? choice is ours to make, not our dollars, pounds, euros, yen or yuan.

[Blackfang]

zenlike, on 05 March 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

I would rather pay a subscription than have an MC arms race and I doubt there are many on my side of the argument who would disagree.

Well if you discipline yourself to spend 9.99 or whatever on MC a month then bang there's your subscription and furthermore it gets you the MC to pay for premium time and get consumables faster? What's the problem there?

[SteelWarrior]

I still dont see the issue.

[zenlike]

Blackfang, on 05 March 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

Well if you discipline yourself to spend 9.99 or whatever on MC a month then bang there's your subscription and furthermore it gets you the MC to pay for premium time and get consumables faster? What's the problem there?

It's because I never want to hear, "You only won because you paid for that golden bullet!" And I don't want to be in a competitive league where the only way to hang is to buy this BS before every round.

In subscription system, everyone pays the same and gets the same treatment. No advantages.

[Tor6]

Blackfang, on 05 March 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

Please explain to me how a FREE player keeps this game running when you don't fund any of the development, you talk about the market for mech games, but there is no market if your not paying anything??

Free players provide a large player base which means that any time anyone paying or not comes into the game they can find other players to play against. They're your teammates and opponents. I payed for this game, and some of my other friends have too, but not all of them. Folks join and try the game out because they can do so for free. Maybe they don't pay in the short term, but long term they wind up shelling out for mech bays or paint or other things.

And even if they don't, one of the absolute biggest turnoffs in any game is not being able to play it when you want. So when I get on at 4am because I can't sleep and can actually find a match, it's probably because someone somewhere is grinding their free play hunchback or something. I don't really care, because being able to play whenever I want incentivises me to keep playing and spend money.

The short of it is that free players usually become paying players eventually, or bring their friends who become paying players. And even if they don't they provide content for those who pay (and those who don't.) F2P titles rely on a lot of folks playing, but only a small subset of them actually paying, and yet they're still immensely profitable (see League of Legends for prime example).