497 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

P2W doesn't work.

Nexxon needs 6 P2Ws and they don't make nearly as much as Riot's F2P.
this has become a subpar game.


just another P2W

[The Cheese]

Windies, on 04 March 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Raises another issue in that you can stack all 3 and still get a large advantage through RMT means. It's a effing terrible implementation.

Or still stack 2 just the MC one and the top tier C-Bill one. Doesn't matter how you look at it, it's effing terrible and provides a real money advantage which is what P2W is all about.

You can't stack L3 pods with any other kinds of pods. They only work on their own.

I get that people are angry about this, but damn, get your facts straight.

[Zaptruder]

The coolant flush thing isn't a big deal.

BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE: THIS IS AN INITIAL PROBE by callous money grubbing men that care not a whit for the state of the game itself; TO FIND OUT HOW TOLERANT THE COMMUNITY IS OF THE P2W MECHANIC.

[Protection]

Quote

So, someone who pays C-Bills only can get with his 3 module slots:

T2 Cooling
T2 Cooling
T2 Cooling


The same person who drops cash can get:

T3 Cooling
T3 Cooling
T3 Cooling

Now compare their 6 PPC Stalkers against one another. Paying customer just bought a pretty big advantage.

Consider this a flawed point that still illustrates the problem.

And here, have another legitimate example:

Quote

Or take a free to play lance, each fitted with:

T2 Cooling
T2 Airstrike
T2 Artillery


Dropping against an identical lance, each with

T3 Cooling
T3 AirStrike
T3 Artillery

Both teams have cooling and calldowns, but the second team has far far more damage to be dealt with all eight of theirs, as well as improved cooling. It's a total advantage.

[Windies]

The Cheese, on 04 March 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

You can't stack L3 pods with any other kinds of pods. They only work on their own.

I get that people are angry about this, but damn, get your facts straight.

Yeah I just re read the post. My bad for not seeing the gigantic red X telling me NO!

Still it's a ****** implementation that IS P2W and opens up a bigger precedent for it down the road. Just because my example is faulty, still doesn't mean that the logic behind the rest of the issue's is faulty.

[Stonefalcon]

From what I've seen sofar Protection (And I've been offline last 2 weeks) is that the Teir 1 and 2 modules effects together equal the effect of the Teir 3 module. Keep in mind that you aren't going to run all the Teir 3 modules, that's just trying to overspecialise and doomed for failure. Also something like the coolant flush isn't entirely useful in such a large dose and better used in small doses, first thing I thought when looking at the percentages was that I don't want to reduce my heat temporarily by 35%, the 15 or 20 are more than enough to get me out of a bind.

I do agree with you whole heartedly about this P2W scheme PGI seems to be running. They've made changes to dumb down the game, destroyed a great opportunity to revive a franchise in all it's glory and then resort to a P2W model to encourage money from players.

It's just plain painful to see it. I just hope PGI sees a voice of reason instead of looking at dollar signs otherwise we'll see most of the comminity jump ship and that's the last thing I want to see. Imagine 10 years from now on wikipedia. "MechWarrior Online. Last attempt to revive a great franchise, ended in disaster when developers tried to suck too much money from a devoted community".

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again here, unless things improve and they see the light they ain't getting more money from me.

[Fabe]

KinLuu, on 04 March 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Does not really matter. MC consumables will still take one module slot less, module slots that could be used for target decay, sensor range, 360 deg and so on. It may be only a small advantage, but it IS an advantage. And this is exactly where Pay2win begins.

Not arguing that, in fact I think you guys might be right,having a MC only module that takes up only one slot could be too much of a advantage over the cbill ones which require a player to have two of them to get the same in game effect. I was just pointing out that you can not stack the modules like Windies was talking about.

Edited by Fabe, 04 March 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[Tallon J]

Ummm tier 3 don't stack i believe...and no matter what you can always circumvent the p2w with stacking the tier 1 and 2...oh and give it a try to see if it is really that bad, if it isn't then onward, if it is then change it. Its really simple, its beta , thats what beta is for.



oh and devs gotta eat.
-Sincerely, Tallon J

[Tennex]

Zaptruder, on 04 March 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

The coolant flush thing isn't a big deal.

BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE: THIS IS AN INITIAL PROBE by callous money grubbing men that care not a whit for the state of the game itself; TO FIND OUT HOW TOLERANT THE COMMUNITY IS OF THE P2W MECHANIC.

always knew PGI was a bad egg.

you don't become successful by counting cash. you become succesfful by loving what you do and creating a sincere product the best you can. so that people want to play it.

[Tarman]

Stonefalcon, on 04 March 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

From what I've seen sofar Protection (And I've been offline last 2 weeks) is that the Teir 1 and 2 modules effects together equal the effect of the Teir 3 module. Keep in mind that you aren't going to run all the Teir 3 modules, that's just trying to overspecialise and doomed for failure. Also something like the coolant flush isn't entirely useful in such a large dose and better used in small doses, first thing I thought when looking at the percentages was that I don't want to reduce my heat temporarily by 35%, the 15 or 20 are more than enough to get me out of a bind.

I do agree with you whole heartedly about this P2W scheme PGI seems to be running. They've made changes to dumb down the game, destroyed a great opportunity to revive a franchise in all it's glory and then resort to a P2W model to encourage money from players.

It's just plain painful to see it. I just hope PGI sees a voice of reason instead of looking at dollar signs otherwise we'll see most of the comminity jump ship and that's the last thing I want to see. Imagine 10 years from now on wikipedia. "MechWarrior Online. Last attempt to revive a great franchise, ended in disaster when developers tried to suck too much money from a devoted community".

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again here, unless things improve and they see the light they ain't getting more money from me.

If they were tanking their own generic robot game I wouldn't even care. But this is Mechwarrior. Having them tank it is disgraceful, and a waste of a valuable and historied IP. Like Lucas and his prequels, it's painful to watch it get rolled over for its pocket change instead of being done right. This IP could take them into real sustainable monies but the quick-grab seems to be ruling the day.

[Zaptruder]

Tennex, on 04 March 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

always knew PGI was a bad egg.

you don't become successful by counting cash. you become succesfful by loving what you do and creating a sincere product the best you can. so that people want to play it.

You should probably direct your ire more towards IGP than PGI; given that IGP are the publishers... and the money men.

I wouldn't be surprised if PGI came up with the tier 1+2 = 3 idea to help defray some of the advantages of the P2W consumables.


The lame justification is that IGP are running a business. The appropriate response is; you run a business by building a solid stable foundation for the long term; not by inflating balloons and popping them. If you want to do that, then go be a clown.

Edited by Zaptruder, 04 March 2013 - 10:12 PM.

[INSEkT L0GIC]

KinLuu, on 04 March 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

And there dies competitive play.

I suddently no longer look forward to CW. Casual play it shall be.

I think competitive play will die the same way it died when they introduced Hero Mechs and Founders Mechs.

[ustazsesat]

So far, the command chair post (http://mwomercs.com/...10-consumables/) is implying that T3 consumables can only be stacked with other T3 consumables (whether we can stack 4 T3 airstrikes or not is still unsaid). This means that cash users are locked to using ONLY T3 consumables. Which also means cash users use the most powerful one shots ALL THE TIME.

Which kinda makes Protection's point all the more worrisome, unless PGI comes out with more info.

[KinLuu]

INSEkT L0GIC, on 04 March 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

I think competitive play will die the same way it died when they introduced Hero Mechs and Founders Mechs.

*for me

[Felicitatem Parco]

PGI was originally going to put ECM on the Jenner JR7-D model.

But when the Community called out about how the Founder's Packages included the Jenner JR7-D, PGI put a kibosh on that and removed the Jenner-D from the list of ECM Mechs...

*my fingers are crossed right now*

Edited by Prosperity Park, 04 March 2013 - 10:13 PM.

[Tarman]

Prosperity Park, on 04 March 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

PGI was originally going to put ECM on the Jenner JR7-D model.

But when the Community called out about how the Founder's Packages included the Jenner JR7-D, PGI put a kibosh on that and removed the Jenner-D from the list of ECM Mechs...

*my fingers are crossed right now*

Official end of the world anyway, I'm liking one of your post-green-promotion posts.

[Zaptruder]

Prosperity Park, on 04 March 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

PGI was originally going to put ECM on the Jenner JR7-D model.

But when the Community called out about how the Founder's Packages included the Jenner JR7-D, PGI put a kibosh on that and removed the Jenner-D from the list of ECM Mechs...

*my fingers are crossed right now*

Those days seem like halcyon days right about now.

PGI are becoming increasingly beholden to their masters at IGP, and less responsive to the community.

The community is tearing at itself over the threat the precedent of P2W gameplay sets.

The required change is simple; allow all consumable tiers to be purchased with CB, allow all consumable tiers to be purchased with MC. Pay to reduce grind paradigm is preserved.

[Dredhawk]

blah blah blah blah, that nice blah!!!!!!!!!

[Stone Profit]

P2W? Go try SWTOR then get back to me. This is charity by comparison.

[Zhang]

Zylo, on 04 March 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

The only way PGI can possibly make this system balanced is by having a single item of each type and listing the item with the MC and C-bill price.

Example:
Large coolant flush 35% heat reduction - 100,000 C-bills or 50MC

Your post still contains an inherent problem with consumables. They've either got to be so cheap as for the price to be pretty much irrelevant, or they're going to be P2W anyhow. You give the 100k c-bill example. That's not too horrid, providing you usually don't use the consumable and you're usually winning and making a good amount of money. But we don't know the price. But, I'm not going to bother debating on the merits of it being P2W if the c-bill cost is unsustainable while it's still much more obviously P2W for all the other reasons Protection has discussed. Just saying that they've got more ways to fail than the ways they've already obviously failed to balance them properly.