46 replies to this topic

[Phades]

An awkward and not very buy-able option for the "stock" heat sinks included with the transition to double heat sinks would be to make the transition to XL engines mandatory in order to try to justify (in terms of critical slots) the extra space needed for the double heat sinks to occupy.

Another option, if coolant flush systems are allowed into play, is to make the extra coolant systems incompatible with the double heat sink systems. The thought behind this would be not too different from water cooling solutions in PCs. IE a closed loop water cooling solution (double heat sink) versus an open loop system drawing from a single and possible backup reservoir (the coolant flush tank).

Although, it would have been nice to see mechanics in the original battle tech system to indicate heat by location rather than simply by engine, since we know weapon barrels heat and warp through excessive use and many can be cooled directly depending on the application of the weapon allowing for longer sustained fire. However, much of that is meaningless due to how the table top implies forced fire recycle times or predominantly single shot uses per trigger pull.

[VYCanis]

Heatsinks. think of them like the radiators in your car. Water circulates through the engine, gets hot, goes through radiator to transfer the heat to the surface of the radiator, which transfers to the air passing over it. This cools the water, which cools the engine. The cycle repeats. BT ones are effectively this, just fancier, shinier, and bigger.

Now take a single and a double HS

1. is your average heatsink. It conducts the heat that has been absorbed by the hot coolant circulating the mech, into the air passing over is surface area.
2. Is a heatsink that has a much larger surface area for the same weight. This means more surface area that air is in contact with, and thus more heat exchange.

Either one is entirely dependent on being able to effectively conduct heat into air in order to operate. (which is why mechs in vacuum can get shafted pretty bad, even if its "technically" absolute zero just outside)

Now imagine suddenly that instead of a given HS being at lets say 500 kelvin from the heat coming from the coolant feeds, and radiating heat harmlessly to the outside air, you've got like 3000 kelvin coming in from the outside, rapidly heating the heatsink something fierce. (assume an inferno or flamer or something)

Now, that heat has got to go somewhere. And though engineers would probably have something in place to prevent that heat from bleeding right into the coolant circulation, you are still left with this possibly red or white hot block of metal sitting in your mech.

Whats it gonna do? well, depending on what heatsinks are actually made out of, and how durable they are, it can go one of 2 ways. Either the heatsink transfer surface begins to melt, fusing normally high surface area parts into solid wads, ruining its conductivity, OR the heatsink transfer surface stays intact, but simply radiates that intense heat into its surroundings, potentially burning out the machinery that delivers the coolant, effectively cauterizing itself from the overall cooling system. Or potentially a mix of both situations. Any way, you end up with a heatsink that is either broken, or severely diminished in operational capacity.

Now a single heatsink, in regards to getting blasted by outside heat, would actually be better off for the same reason it tends to suck. If its not transfering heat out as fast as a double, its not going to heat up as fast either. And Its denser more compact heat transfer surface would be able to withstand higher stresses.

It would likely still be a less than ideal circumstance, and I wouldn't go as far as to say they'd be "resistant," but i would wager they wouldn't be as vulnerable.

no technobabble required

Edited by VYCanis, 12 November 2011 - 09:24 PM.

[wolf74]

Changing the Heat Scale, You need to have a Term for the time it take one Heat sink to remove it's heat level(AKA Double Heat sink the time it take it to remove 2 heat). I call it a "Heat Tic". The formula for getting how much heat a weapon & the Mechs Heat Effect are changed by is: (10/Heat Tic)=Multiplier

CBT 1 Turn = 10sec (Bulk of most games) = Multiplier of 1
Solaris VII 1 Turn = 2.5sec = Multiplier of 4
1sec Heat Tic = Multiplier of 10
½sec Heat Tic = Multiplier of 20

Walking: 1Heat per Tic (66% of Max speed or slower)
Running: 2 Heat per Tic (67% of Max Speed or higher)
Jump Jets: 3Heat per Tic or #Jump Jets Heat per Tic Which Ever is greater
Weapons Heat = CBT heat X Tic
Engine Hit 1st/2st; 5/10 heat per Tic (I think the 20/40 in the Solaris book was a mathematical typo)
A Heat Sink Remove its normal Heat Point(s) per (TIC) SHS=1 DSH=2
The Overheat Chart we all know and love on the side of our Mech sheets = (Number value X Multiplier)

The Effects of the Overheat chart need a small Delay before kicking in somewhere between 2.5sec to 10sec giving the Pilot a chance to let the mech cool or jump in to a lake and hope his armor not breached.

Edited by wolf74, 12 November 2011 - 10:21 PM.

[Jonas Walker]

I've seen the suggestion of basing the number of 'free' heatsinks crits accounted for by engine tonnage posted here also mentioned on the CBT forums before and personally I find it a fairly elegant solution to the problem. Something like that combined with replicating some form of crit hits from the tabletop rules should balance things nicely, however its entirely up to the developers really. I'm actually quite curious to see what they end up coming up with myself.

Edited by Jonas Walker, 13 November 2011 - 08:30 AM.

[minobu tetsuharu]

TheRulesLawyer, on 07 November 2011 - 10:32 AM, said:

The DHS boat sailed a long time ago. They make heat management in the game trivial and make ammo weapons much worse buys. I think the only thing you can really do to bring back the balance is make ammo weapons cycle much faster than energy weapons.

Double heat sinks aren't an issue. They are a solution.
They are needed to close the gap with the clans.
Gauss Rifles and specialized warheads for missiles already brought parity to energy weapons.
CASE II takes 20 years to become readily available but they closed the gap with energy weapons and most of the autocannons.
Mech designing was not as flexible when we didn't have double heatsinks and weight reduction tech to give us more leeway on how we created new mechs.

[Aethon]

NO. We already have this stupid 'heatsinks pop under heat load' mechanic in MWLL; no need to start adding non-canon gameplay features to MWO.

If you want to damage heatsinks, wear down the armor, then do critical damage to the location in question.

Edited by Aethon, 13 November 2011 - 09:17 AM.